ChezGiven

My take on it would be to look very closely at the ties between the agents who brokered the deal between Torres and Chelsea and Carrroll and Liverppol. The biggest winners from yesterday. All the talk of £150m being spent is bollocks unless you're an agent. Chelsea put £50m in the market and Liverpool spent that. So £50m into the market generating a £100m worth of sales for agents to profit from. I have heard that Carroll's agent insisted that he speak to Liverpool. Why? Good for the player obviously but that of course isnt the truth from the agent's perspective. The reality is that there was no way Abramovich was setting in place £100m of transfers and fees if Carroll didnt want to go. The catalyst in all this is Carroll's willingness to move, not the club's willingness to sell.

It's all quite straightforward at the end of the day (literally). Liverpool offered him 5 times the wages to persuade him to come. We rejected the £35m offer but then Carroll said he wanted to go so we took it. Once he had listened to Liverpool and his head was turned, we had to take the insane price on the table. It's the simplest explanation. Any other version has to have us pretending to reject the £35m offer whilst persuading Carroll to put in a transfer request so they could publicly accept the offer.

Bawan, you cant be pushed out the door when you have a legal employment contract. I know that as a fact. If he didnt want to go, he didnt have to. Its called employment law and has been around for centuries.

Makes fuck all sense. If he doesnt want to go he has a contract which has to be upheld. Did the cousin say anything about his agent "insisting" on him listening to Liverpool's offer? what would you do? I'd have pretended to sell him to Liverpool and then when they sold Torres to Chelsea, phoned up NESV (mortal obviously) and gone 'WAHHHHH' and hoyed the phone down. What about you?

Makes fuck all sense. If he doesnt want to go he has a contract which has to be upheld. Did the cousin say anything about his agent "insisting" on him listening to Liverpool's offer?

I can't blame the club too much, it was massive money and we all know what Ashley is like. I'm just disappointed that Carroll didn't fight it is all. You can't blame the club because you know what Ashley is like??? What the fact he is a shyster gives him a free pass -bizzarro £35m with a couple of people saying the deal is £40m. Its an unreal amount of money and who knows what the Swedish specialist said. What was your price? Mine was £30m before today.

I can't blame the club too much, it was massive money and we all know what Ashley is like. I'm just disappointed that Carroll didn't fight it is all. Am completely with you on that.

Because he agreed to the transfer? Some people are saying the club have forced the sale through, others are saying that other club's willingness to meet an extortionate price and Carroll's willingness to leave pushed the sale through. Two different stories imo. Impossible without Carrolls agreement. Not what Carroll text Steve Wraith. Indeed. But can you explain to me exactly what they could have threatened Carroll with to force him out? I was just presenting both sides of the coin, as i see it. Anyone trying to definitively describe this transfer and the motives and actions of all parties within minutes of it unfolding on twitter are a bit naive imo. As some have intimated, there may be significant information to come out. I just think that means more people to spin their shit about it. The bare facts are that Liverpool bid over the odds to prize our asset away from us. Which doesnt suggest the club were keen to sell him. Happy to take his 'price' though. The lack of a replacement is not surprising really, just infuriating.

Because he agreed to the transfer? Some people are saying the club have forced the sale through, others are saying that other club's willingness to meet an extortionate price and Carroll's willingness to leave pushed the sale through. Two different stories imo. Impossible without Carrolls agreement. Not what Carroll text Steve Wraith.

Because he agreed to the transfer? Some people are saying the club have forced the sale through, others are saying that other club's willingness to meet an extortionate price and Carroll's willingness to leave pushed the sale through. Two different stories imo.

Still a load of shite imo. Is it? I'd love to know the absolute truth in all of this. Tell me one thing they could have said to Carroll to convince him to go? "You've got Mrs. Nolan pregnant"

Still a load of shite imo. Same. The PR game being played on all sides.

Put it this way - I've never seen a smile as bright on his face as the one he was wearing on the way to Liverpool. He's over the moon. Yup. Chez and some others are in denial reg this and understandably so. I was more confused before but i was just catching up on the discussion. I mentioned the possibility of him being tapped up as just as likely as him being happy at Newcastle then all of a sudden happy to go to Liverpool and do the club a favour in handing the transfer in as he wasnt that arsed anyway. Seems a very convoluted and odd pov to me. Not got an agenda, just trying to understand wtf, which is understandable given the day events. Tbh I'm pretty sure Carrolls head is spinning. I think the Torres ultimatum to Liv on Fri was the catalyst for this deal. I called it at lunchtime inc the price btw. Sad day. The version of events being told on here doesnt even mention agents, so i'm not convinced. We've been approached for Carroll by predatory clubs and agents all window but all along it was just us wanting to sell him. Doesnt compute. Am not sad as i've had an amazing day today, but am fucking gutted about Carroll.

Errr aye, we know this. No one is saying he was manipulated into going. He was happy to go, and happy to submit a request to smooth things over here. Actually I am saying he was manipulated into going. Once we got to where we were today he was happy to go along with the coreography-but I doubt he was behind it I don't think he would have gone without the club teeing the transfer up. But I think once it was all put in place he was happy enough to go. So he's gone from delighted to stay at Newcastle to delighted to be going to Liverpool. Have you just got him down as some happy-clappy divvy not arsed where he plays? Read what I've just posted. Fucking hell man, I don't even know what point you're trying to make. What I've just posted sums up what I'm saying on it. Just trying to understand the positions people are taking and what they're based on. No point to make really, other than i look like a tit for being sure he would stay.

Put it this way - I've never seen a smile as bright on his face as the one he was wearing on the way to Liverpool. He's over the moon. Yup. Chez and some others are in denial reg this and understandably so. I was more confused before but i was just catching up on the discussion. I mentioned the possibility of him being tapped up as just as likely as him being happy at Newcastle then all of a sudden happy to go to Liverpool and do the club a favour in handing the transfer in as he wasnt that arsed anyway. Seems a very convoluted and odd pov to me. Not got an agenda, just trying to understand wtf, which is understandable given the day events.

Errr aye, we know this. No one is saying he was manipulated into going. He was happy to go, and happy to submit a request to smooth things over here. Actually I am saying he was manipulated into going. Once we got to where we were today he was happy to go along with the coreography-but I doubt he was behind it I don't think he would have gone without the club teeing the transfer up. But I think once it was all put in place he was happy enough to go. So he's gone from delighted to stay at Newcastle to delighted to be going to Liverpool. Have you just got him down as some happy-clappy divvy not arsed where he plays?

And he's fucking right. Worst part of all of this is that the club persuaded him to submit the transfer request so they could waive the termination / signing on fee. Trying to make him look like the cunt when in reality its all them and nothing will disaude me on that. Wouldn't be surprised if they told him "look we're selling you anyway, might as well go with a bit of dignity and let it look like you were ambitious". These cunts would sell their grannys man. Worse still, they have us all dangling by puppet strings making approaches for players on loan they know damned well are not going to accept their paltry wages offer. Sooner these cunts go the better. I'd happily see them pocket the £35m if it meant them fucking off in the summer. I don't see how him putting a request in makes him look like a man with dignity tbh. I think it was a much more friendly request than that. They needed Carroll to put the request in. Well its not like Carrol sat down at his bureau- got out his best basildon bond and his favourite parker, and starting pouring his heart out in letter form. His agent will have told him its a done deal, you just get more money if you sign this bit of paper - Ill type it out for you son You're agreeing with me, right? I'm not disagreeing I think Ashley his agent and Liverpool will have got everything in place, his agent will then have convinced him it was a done deal, he would earn loads more money big signing on fee and turned his head and then told him to sign the transfer request as the deal was happening anyway. Carrol's not going to be winning Mastermind anytime soon, he's only a young daft kid -wouldn't be hard to get him talked into this. I imagine he's had a fair amount of pressure over this. Still think he is a cunt for going, but it's Ashleys fault Aye I think this is exactly what's happened. I said similar earlier about how easy it would be to talk him into signing the transfer request. His head would be spinning at the thought of his new wages, what's a transfer request between friends, etc. It is what you're saying. What did Saggy face say exactly on SSN? He said: "I've had a good laugh this afternoon watching stuff coming out of Newcastle about how they didn't want to sell him, how hard they've fought to keep him, they've pulled out all the stops, and he's handed in a transfer request but they've battled it all the way. My god. Every time they sell a player, one of these clubs, they make the player put in a transfer request to make it look like they didn't want to sell him." Makes it sound like the selling club has actively touted the player freely round clubs for the last 4 weeks. The buying clubs do all the work in the window not the selling clubs. He tries to make out we are desperate to sell him. In this scenario the player doesnt go for nearly £40m. Its just as likely he was tapped up in Dubai and Ashley has sold him at his 'price' which all players have. Why the convoluted explanation of the transfer request? He wanted to gan and the club has milked the price.

I dont think Carroll would fuck his relationship up with the fans like that unless he absolutely had to. Any adviser with half a brain cell would try to avoid that.

And he's fucking right. Worst part of all of this is that the club persuaded him to submit the transfer request so they could waive the termination / signing on fee. Trying to make him look like the cunt when in reality its all them and nothing will disaude me on that. Wouldn't be surprised if they told him "look we're selling you anyway, might as well go with a bit of dignity and let it look like you were ambitious". These cunts would sell their grannys man. Worse still, they have us all dangling by puppet strings making approaches for players on loan they know damned well are not going to accept their paltry wages offer. Sooner these cunts go the better. I'd happily see them pocket the £35m if it meant them fucking off in the summer. I don't see how him putting a request in makes him look like a man with dignity tbh. I think it was a much more friendly request than that. They needed Carroll to put the request in. Well its not like Carrol sat down at his bureau- got out his best basildon bond and his favourite parker, and starting pouring his heart out in letter form. His agent will have told him its a done deal, you just get more money if you sign this bit of paper - Ill type it out for you son You're agreeing with me, right? I'm not disagreeing I think Ashley his agent and Liverpool will have got everything in place, his agent will then have convinced him it was a done deal, he would earn loads more money big signing on fee and turned his head and then told him to sign the transfer request as the deal was happening anyway. Carrol's not going to be winning Mastermind anytime soon, he's only a young daft kid -wouldn't be hard to get him talked into this. I imagine he's had a fair amount of pressure over this. Still think he is a cunt for going, but it's Ashleys fault Aye I think this is exactly what's happened. I said similar earlier about how easy it would be to talk him into signing the transfer request. His head would be spinning at the thought of his new wages, what's a transfer request between friends, etc. It is what you're saying. What did Saggy face say exactly on SSN?

Having just signed a lucrative new contract, him coming through the youth system is irrelevant. Unless you think he negotiated his contract himself? Forcing the player to hand in a transfer request only works when the player wants to go. Am i getting you wrong in thinking that Carroll didnt want to go and did the club a favour by handing a PR 'kick in his own pods' request in?

Doesnt Carroll lose his loyalty bonus if he hands in the request? Possibly a couple of million?

Aye. This is game-changing from the POV of the message it sends out to the rest of the squad too btw. There was chatter earlier today about Enrique signing an extended contract. We might have heard the last of that. Depends if we get anyone in. Torres leaving liverpool sends out a bigger message, especially to a fanbase with no special feeling towards Carroll. I have no idea why am even entertaining the idea of an adequate replacement. Boothroyd is probably the best case scenario. Even that's optimistic at this time.

The rightness or wrongness of the situation is all down to the price and it's reinvestment. I was convinced he would stay as I never imagined clubs would he willing to bid this amount. £35m is a game-changing amount but only if someone is lined up to replace him. With no one lined up it would appear the clowns at the club have let events control them unlike Liverpool who have sorted out the Torres problem and made money. Fucking shite.

Carroll isn't our best player either. Barton and Tiote unless your blind.