ChezGiven

Aye but I think the unbeaten / lack of defeats thing is a red herring as too many draws could take us down. We aren't doomed but we're either going to go down or narrowly avoid it imo. Too early to say that too imo.

Here's a few simple stats; We are in 16th position, 2 above the drop. We have lost fewer games than any other team in the bottom half (2 of those losses came during the turbulent rudderless period). We have conceded fewer goals than 7 of the bottom half (Spurs, West Ham just less than us and they play tonight). On top of that, during periods in recent games we have shown that we can play better football than those teams around us. In a league this tight, I dont think many clubs can be considered too good to go down. Its far too early to say what will happen too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...y-Football.html I wonder if this is the same source who told us about Mike's ambitions to turn us into a CL club in 3 years.

I have no idea what that quote means Tom. Sounded good.

"To say of something which is that it is not, or to say of something which is not that it is, is false. However, to say of something which is that it is, or of something which is not that it is not, is true." Aristotle.

Richard Reid is English, born near London and has and English Mam and a Jamaican father. As this is about his physical likeness it cant have anything to with Arabs and the connection to Islam are merely a consequence of Richard Reid's association with the religion. Its a fucking joke that this question / debate is driven by a physical likeness to a man whose ethnicity is negro/caucasian.

I want to know the truth.

He still believes what he says. He's a WUM for going about it the way he has. Failed on both counts imo.

You know what, i've met enough people over the age of 50 who should have been neutered at birth to know that age means fuck all. You write like you have the mental age of a 14 year old so forgive me for treating you like that. I also think Ashley has been fucking us over and i'm on record saying that every one of his actions during the first 3 months of his tenure were shit PR stunts. September 2007, on another forum, can link you if you want. Heavily critical until he appointed Keegan. Were you lapping it all up in 2007? Happy to get rid of the other "fat bastard"? I said an opinion was ill-informed and i think i've done a lot to back up that statement without ever dropping to the quite frankly pathetic levels you've displayed in this thread. You've combined personal insults with shit arguments and failed to respond to any of the substantive points that were put to you. 40 years old apparently and acting like a teenager. But i digress from the stupidity of this - "Why would a club valued at £300M by your reckoning attract lower tier investors if it was for sale at £200M. Surely this would attract clever investors". Thats awesome. I mean really fucking out there beyond the world of stupid. If a mars bar is £1,000,000 how many people in the world will be prepared to buy it? If its £0.00001, how many people will be prepared to buy it? Has it sunk in yet? Clever investors would question why an asset is being sold at a discount, so you're basically wrong about that one. There is actually a model that predicts the price of assets based on the financials, so the price being asked for has to be in line with that otherwise no one will even engage with the investment opportunity. You've clearly got all this sussed though tbf. As for me thinking you are being over emotional, if thats patronising, then i'm sorry. As i've said, i think we all need to calm down and reflect on what is best for the long term future of the club, not short-term objectives. This may be a little uncomfortable for a while but i think it will be worth it. Are your views endangering the club? You think not, so explain to me how during this season a change in ownership is going to increase the chances of staying up? What will happen during the next 2 months that will help the club move forward? What is the chain of events you see that means we change the owner and stay in this league? How will the players react to a 4th manager in one season? Are we or are we not a club crying out for stability? You tell me what happens next, as with my understanding of managing teams, i reckon another wholesale change this season will destroy us unless its Father Christmas that takes over. Can you promise that for me? If so, i'll happily join up to your positive action group.

Possibly, he seems like a nice kid anyway.

Don't be so patronising you prick. I'm fully aware of what a recession is, and the implications. JFK confirmed Ashley had an offer, but he didn;t think this was enough money, so don't come out with crap that no-one is buying. In this market is it not Ashley who is being unrealistic with his asking price which by all accounts is in excess of what he paid. The objective of cancelling the DD should indicate to Ashley that he is getting no more money from Newcastle supporters and trying to force his hand in selling the club. At this point anybody would be better than Ashley - who could have dome more harm than this fat fool and his midget sidekick???? Emotional and ill informed- what a load of patronising nonsense- is appeasement always the best way????? How has anything that I have said ill informed???? Do you know what price he was offered??????? There is nothing ill informed about trying to force the worst owner in the history of NUFC out of the club. How emotional was that response? Just what we dont need right now. You didnt state what the second part of the plan was, the bit about how the next owner would be better. Ill informed as you clearly dont appreciate the impact of the financial crisis on the attractiveness of the club to investors. How patronising yet again. Just what who doesn't need - we - do you speak for everybody???? Don't try and be clever you just look smug, patronising and ignorant. There have been two offers for the club - how do you know that the next owner would not be better -could they be worse??? Ill Informed ???? What part is ill informed - the fact is we have had offers so therefore the club is attractive at a certain price - do you know what that price is??? I know what it should be - certainly no more than what Ashley paid for it, and possibly less due to the financial crisis. Unless you know what the offers were, and I'm sure you don't then you are the one making ill informed assumptions without all the facts. The plan is quite clear - get rid of an owner who clearly does not care one jot for the club or the supporters. If his investment is not going to make a profit, then with a bit of luck he will cut his losses and leave. Passion and emotion are what loyal supporters feel for their club - you apparently do not - I feel sorry for you in that case. You're now asking people where they drink so that puts you in the under 21 bracket and so i was right, never seen a recession. I'll give you the address of my local too but i doubt your pocket money will get you there. I'll return to what i said originally and lay it out for you as this all was said in the light of the fact that those wanting Ashley out at this moment have no idea what the next part of the plan is. You say the plan is quite clear but the plan only has short-term ambitions, it has no longer term thinking. For the very first point on this issue, you may remember people saying anyone other than Shepherd would be better a couple of years ago. Look how that one worked out for the short-termists? The plan also assumes that there is a buyer at any price. Its quite simple to work out that if someone of the wealth of Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed wants to invest in a football club, they wouldnt be squabbling over £50m, in fact if you think about the expenditure streams involved and the risks, i doubt that an investor of this size would squabble over £100m. The price is pretty much irrelevant to the fantasy-land owners. Shame for us the 2008/9 season is mired in the reality of a relegation struggle and Father Christmas doesnt exist. If you look at the next tier of wealth below that you'll see that people in that bracket have lost a huge % of their wealth recently. Wealth is not held in cash, its held in complex financial products that have all fallen in value dramatically in the last 6 months. With this in mind, not many people are still feeling like investing in something as risky as 'turning a club lying 17th in the premier league into a top 4 club that would deliver a more attractive return than investing it elsewhere'. Thats the prospect that these people are looking at and the current financial climate is making that a less and less attractive option. Thats why the club has not been sold. Are you seriously saying that if the world had not experienced this current economic downturn that the club would not have been sold? As for Ashley himself, all his other assests (like everybody else's) have also fallen dramatically in value. As much as it pains anyone to have him around any longer, that financial losses he has incurred make it very unlikely he will sell one of his assets (our club) now when he can wait for the crisis to settle down and sell it without a loss. Its fact of life that we cant really do much about. Lets say he did drop the price to less than £200m. Does this reflect the value of the asset? With an income stream of £90m+ , the business has a nominal venture capital value of £270m, add in to that the growth of income streams in the last 5 years and trending them out in the medium term (Future Growth Value or FGV), then the real price of the asset is somewhere in the £300m+ area. If you drop that down to say £200m, given the £90m + income stream, this will attract lower tier investors with less capital behind them and the eventual buyer could be anyone. That would be really risky for the future of the club. The time for emotions was 3 months ago, now is the time for reflection and level-headedness. If i believed that you could make decisions regarding the future of a football club with passion and emotion, then i would argue for a supporter to run the club with no experience or working in a business. The fact is, making decisions regarding the future of NUFC on the basis of someone's emotional response to the situation in this case jeopardises the future of the club. Do you think we will avoid relegation if a new owner comes in in January, unsettles the fragile team and appoints god-knows who as manager? Its people like you that are jeopardising the future of the club by calling for wholescale changes in the organisation of a club experiencing the threat of relegation from the premiership more acutely than ever during the fucking middle of that season. Its people like you that are threatening the future health and wealth of the football club. Its people like you that dont understand that knowing what is best for the future requires reflection on a wealth of factors and that real passion and emotion is wanting us to do what is right for the club and not damage it because you dont have the forsesight to look past short-term goals.

Don't be so patronising you prick. I'm fully aware of what a recession is, and the implications. JFK confirmed Ashley had an offer, but he didn;t think this was enough money, so don't come out with crap that no-one is buying. In this market is it not Ashley who is being unrealistic with his asking price which by all accounts is in excess of what he paid. The objective of cancelling the DD should indicate to Ashley that he is getting no more money from Newcastle supporters and trying to force his hand in selling the club. At this point anybody would be better than Ashley - who could have dome more harm than this fat fool and his midget sidekick???? Emotional and ill informed- what a load of patronising nonsense- is appeasement always the best way????? How has anything that I have said ill informed???? Do you know what price he was offered??????? There is nothing ill informed about trying to force the worst owner in the history of NUFC out of the club. How emotional was that response? Just what we dont need right now. You didnt state what the second part of the plan was, the bit about how the next owner would be better. Ill informed as you clearly dont appreciate the impact of the financial crisis on the attractiveness of the club to investors. How patronising yet again. Just what who doesn't need - we - do you speak for everybody???? Don't try and be clever you just look smug, patronising and ignorant. There have been two offers for the club - how do you know that the next owner would not be better -could they be worse??? Ill Informed ???? What part is ill informed - the fact is we have had offers so therefore the club is attractive at a certain price - do you know what that price is??? I know what it should be - certainly no more than what Ashley paid for it, and possibly less due to the financial crisis. Unless you know what the offers were, and I'm sure you don't then you are the one making ill informed assumptions without all the facts. The plan is quite clear - get rid of an owner who clearly does not care one jot for the club or the supporters. If his investment is not going to make a profit, then with a bit of luck he will cut his losses and leave. Passion and emotion are what loyal supporters feel for their club - you apparently do not - I feel sorry for you in that case. I'll deal with you later.

I was taking the piss with that comment. Fair enough.

Don't be so patronising you prick. I'm fully aware of what a recession is, and the implications. JFK confirmed Ashley had an offer, but he didn;t think this was enough money, so don't come out with crap that no-one is buying. In this market is it not Ashley who is being unrealistic with his asking price which by all accounts is in excess of what he paid. The objective of cancelling the DD should indicate to Ashley that he is getting no more money from Newcastle supporters and trying to force his hand in selling the club. At this point anybody would be better than Ashley - who could have dome more harm than this fat fool and his midget sidekick???? Emotional and ill informed- what a load of patronising nonsense- is appeasement always the best way????? How has anything that I have said ill informed???? Do you know what price he was offered??????? There is nothing ill informed about trying to force the worst owner in the history of NUFC out of the club. How emotional was that response? Just what we dont need right now. You didnt state what the second part of the plan was, the bit about how the next owner would be better. Ill informed as you clearly dont appreciate the impact of the financial crisis on the attractiveness of the club to investors.

I think you're all mad, i'm guessing some of you are too young to remember what a recession looks like or what happens during one. Add on top of that one of the the worst financial climates in post-industrial history and you are looking at huge uncertainty for any investor. If you dont know how that connects to the debate here you should have a little think. What is the overall objective of the DD cancellation or going 'nuclear'? To remove Ashley is not an end-game, it is not a result, it is an intermediate step towards something else. The purchase of the club by someone better is the only way any of those activities could be helpful in the long-run. I'm not going to connect the dots, it should be obvious. Emotional, narrow sighted, ill informed opinion is going to do nothing for the future of the club. The situation is about as sobering as it gets.

Speaking of which, what happened to them two drunk birds that used to post on here?

Well debt has become more expensive of course. Good stuff, that makes the big club's less powerful.

Why would Klinsmann know? If the TV companies are contracted over the period they cant change the payments they are currently making and if crowd's maintain at a similar level, what has changed within the financial structure?

We both share some objectives, the healthier the club the more valuable the asset. Its this common ground that we need to exploit. However, if the price is the same to the buyer whether we are 17th or 7th, this might be difficult to argue. What intrigues me about all this is that one of the reasons cited as influencing the attractiveness of the club beyond the financial climate was the turmoil between the club's ownership and fans. If he wants to sell, surely he will want relationships to appear to be improving?

I heard your company had a methodone stall. Aye well, the NHS wouldnt pay for one.

There was even one fo them continental markets in Blyth town centre last christmas! .....Pills from Amsterdam, Smack from Afghanistan, Weed from Ashington iirc.

I disagree that being concilliatory is an admission of defeat. To use a poor analogy, i'd say we've been in a fight and this is us letting him up off the floor and saying lets talk instead of us punching you in the gob repeatedly. The message i'd like him to receive is this; "If you genuinely cant sell your asset, then you need to protect it until such times that you can. That requires good stewardship of the asset base, strong leadership of the club, matching the ambitions and continuous improvement of our key competitors and maximising our key strength; the support. This can be acheived with realistic but significant short-term investment and a dialogue between the club's support base and leadership".

Good. Its a Limited (private) company therefore the reporting obligations are different than before. Profit and Loss, Balance sheet and an auditors report is about it i think. The Balance sheet should show all current and future liabilities though. However, since we already have one set of accounts from SJHL then all these should have been answered last time if they were going to be answered by the companies house report. So there ye gan.

I'm not talking about individual transfers, I'm talking about the lack of spending and failure to strengthen a threadbare squad despite the request of the manager. And there is nothing wrong with admitting you've gotten a few things wrong but suddenly welcoming Ashley back without putting up any sort of a fight shows a lack of backbone to me. I really dont get your position here ewerk, you may have clarified before. If you think that Ashley will have a hard task selling then surely this is the right thing to do? If you dont think its hard for Ashley to sell.... well i know that you do realise that. Bit confused here. The supporters put up such a fight that Ashley decided to leave. The supportes continued to put pressure on him to sell the club. (Both those show backbone) The economy and financial environment soured very quickly and our assumptions about the world changed. The NUSC was then criticised by many for not taking account of the wider picture and the feasibility of selling the club. They now have accepted the need to work together (showing backbone, circumspection and pragmatism). Where's the issue in all that?