PaddockLad

I agree, and I think the yes campaign has huge merit in lots of ways. The corporates will snuff out a young democracy in this case though. I've got an English brother and sister and a 78 year old English mother all getting a vote (brother is the only yesser, fuckin Stalinist ) to go with the house I own in the village where I was brought up so there's a bit riding on it for me. As I've said, don't let Salmon tear up the union jack, give him the rest though and hope it leads to a sort of "united states of the UK" where all major decisions are mostly made locally and most taxes are collected locally. The US does this, can't see why we can't have full regionalisation in the future. The cats out the bag now like, well done salmon for that.

ultimate fence sitter tbh, fuckin useless in most arguments, can see everyones view

Ahh right, cheers Andrew, apologies to both.

Democracy isn't perfect by a huge margin, but if you consider yourself civilised its the only game in town. If you don't want to play the door is at Dover. There's plenty coming in who will replace you

Who's the kid from Pakistan then? No matter... In the last 25 years former totalitarian regimes and brutally sectarian countries all over the planet have granted the right to vote to all citizens. In the 19th century the US gave former slaves a vote too, yet some on here are suggesting that some folk north of the border aren't clever enough to vote the way you think they should?

Do you get a vote where you're from Rayvin?

What's the actual difference between 16 and 18? How much more are you likely to have gained in intelligence in two late teenage years? The issue has only come about because its seen as Salmon seeking to gain an advantage, which is of course correct. Fwiw, my sisters eldest was 18 a month ago and is voting no.

yeah and its the likes of fuckin geniuses like you two who fully deserve a vote like

Ok CT I'll make this simple for you, I think what you're alluding to has already happened in this country. A random attack on a citizen in the street by Islamic terrorists intent on beheading the poor victim. That's all I'm trying to say. Sorry for being so obtuse this morning. Am also sorry you're so fuckin thick.

Lee Rigby was in civvies and was only wandering near to his barracks. IS don't have a monopoly on Islamic terrorism, see also 9/11 & 7/7 for instance.

So the murder of Lee Rigby escaped the notice of the South Tyneside oracle?.....no shit?....

Sorry to hear your news Stevie.

If a scots nats politician from the 50s 60s or 70s had gone up to a steel worker from Ravenscraig and said "vote for me" he'd have got the answer "why? I work for BRITISH Steel" That's all gone now, so is his union to all intents and purposes, his social club, and now his political party (Labour) is pretty much an irrelevance in Scotland too. The Scots nats now ask "what keeps you British?" not much as far as I can make out.

The best way I could put it is if a Scots nats politician in the 50s,60s or 70s had gone up to a Ravenscraig steel worker and said "vote for me" he'd likely get the retort "why? I work for BRITISH Steel'. All that's gone, and most under 40 barely if at all remember it.

Well you seem to be agreeing but saying you disagree... I agree with what you're saying as well, my point is that the institutions, workplaces and social groupings of the working class from the post war period had all gone from all of the UK by as you say by the mid nineties, and coupled with Scotland being the guinea pig for the poll tax a few years earlier there was a gradual realisation that Scotland (and the north) was only useful to the powers that be when we were producing the coal and ships that fired the empire. Once the British Empire had declined, they had no use for the north, so the sense of togetherness died iyam. This is what the Scots nats have exploited.

The UK has run its course iyam.The post war consensus and the glue in society that held us together was done away with, ironically, by the tories in the 80s. That doesn't mean that the corporate world won't squash an independant Scotland like a fly.

The yessers by the very nature of the issue have been the positive ones and there is more than likely a majority who wants to beleive them. The no could only ever be negative, but they're now letting Scotland raise their own taxes and keep the Barnett formula, But we all keep the union jack....for the moment...

What a coincidence though, someone who shares your bitter prejudices, from Scotland, in your cab the week of the referendum

agree with a lot of this, especially about those with a young family like my 40something brother and sister and cousins, all of whom have school aged children and all of whom work (some with two jobs) and most of whom are voting yes. My sisters still undecided this morning, but will vote no I reckon.

I don't beleive you CT, I think you're lying.

Sounds like the media may have known what was going on...last bit of this article says as much... http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-winger-jonas-gutierrez-reveals-4272042

If true, this may go some way to explain why the players have appeared as if they'd rather be poked in the eye with a fork than put a black and white shirt on. Jonas went to Norwich on January 13th, after making one league appearance and one place on the bench since the start of the season.

You'd be hard pressed to tell I was English by talking to me Never heard that stat either. Wonder why?

You're right they're completely different situations. The point is your "fuckwits" over the water are a bit more extreme than anyone thinking of voting yes in Scotland on Thursday and it's a bit rich for someone from Ulster to describe them as such. If it's yes the sky probably won't fall in, and if it does they're willing to take the chance. Stop showing off because you couldn't find anything more interesting to do with your life than fuckin accountancy