Christmas Tree

Rather than type lots explaining why you are incorrect, I would refer you to I player, BBC parliament, todays treasury select committee where the chancellor explained why Europe got all excited at the idea of nicking financial services, why they now understand its not in their interests and why New York, Singapore etc would be the winners.

Alex man drop the wum patter. You might not agree with my view or politics but nothing I have posted is from a wum point of view. The reason we are where we are is largely down to the stupid way in which the EU sequenced talks. I.e. Trying to solve the money and Ireland before trade talks. The money was / is never going to be agreed until a trade deal is agreed and the arrangements for Ireland are 100% influenced by the customs arrangements agreed as part of that trade deal.

You can laugh, but even the chancellor explained this in depth to the treasury select committee this morning

You just don’t understand what’s going on. We are not starting from scratch negotiating every little thing. In simplistic terms for you...., Tomorrow night we could leave the single market and the following day have a new arrangement (call it associate deal or whatever you like). Virtually nothing would need to change other than face saving. We are no longer members but now have to pay a fee. Everything continues as before trade wise. This is essence is how this is going to work. It’s just down to money.

I see the “slow down” message sunk in

Im sorry You are too busy bashing your keyboard with insult after insult to comprehend anything other than your own bile. Grow up, slow down and try and understand. You are getting hung up on labels. Try and think a bit more openly about this. Just because we are out of THEE customs union doesn’t mean we can’t replace it with another customs union as part of the new deal. As it would be a bespoke new customs union we would be able to do our new trade deals and the Irish issue will be sorted. We will no longer be a member of the Single market but will instead have access to it. Most people, including the EU understand that finically services need to continue otherwise the winners will be placed like New York and Singapore. The argument has moved on from passporting. This is not going to take years as both sides want to start implementing this new agreed deal in 17 months time.

Sure ther will a few unhappy with that deal but it will be a handful. The overwhelming majority of labour and conservative MP’s will snap this up and move on.

Based on your first paragraph I assume your position is we won’t get a deal? Fair enough. We’ve already said we leave the EU in March 2019. Being a full member of the single market and customs union ends and the four freedoms no longer apply. Understanding all of the above, the EU have started negotiations with us to tie up “divorce” proceedings AND discuss future trade arrangements. Even yesterday they confirmed they are hoping to move onto future trade arrangements by December with a view to an implantation period of two years starting March 30th 2019. So, EU and UK are AGREED that we want a deal and AGREED about implementing that deal. Neither party wants a no deal situation. If we can agree the above is fact and where we are, in then comes down to the compromises each side will make to secure that deal. The most simplistic (and likely) scenario is that we continue in a similar trade and customs arrangement as we are currently in without actually being called a “full member”. We won’t have to abide by the four freedoms but will probably have to pay a membership fee. This will solve most problems and will be acceptable to both sides.

The question implied a deal is agreed. Who’s the simpleton

Sorry, don’t get it

He didn’t, I’ll repeat it. Assuming a deal is agreed, which bits of the cake do they think we will not get? Obviously different remainers have different answers based on their viewpoint. Simply pointing out humps in the process has nothing to do with my question. Im genuinely interested what the different views are. Sure if you think it’s impossible to get any deal then the questions not for.

I asked first.

It was a simple question which you didn’t answer?

As it’s the most beneficial economic outcome for both parties, I believe it will happen or be as near as possible to it. I constantly here people on here talk about worst case scenarios and highlight the problem areas, but assuming a deal is agreed, which bits of the cake do they really think we won’t get?

Sometimes a length of hose pipe is useful for ramming down the drain to shift the blockage. (Ideally invest in a set of drain rods about £20 here).

There’s nothing at all isolationist about Corbyn or Brexit. The simplistic “having our cake and eating” position is without doubt the most beneficial economical position for this country. The only issue is how close to this position we can agree. Wanting to continue as we are with regard to EU trade, security, euratom, education etc and wanting to open up more free markets around the world is anything but isolationism.

Just a wave of depreciation and inflation washing through.

For a moment.....

It was a pretty mainstream view that contagion could kick in, especially if Le Pen had got in. While it hasn’t happened yet and may not, the rise of unrest across the EU hasn’t gone away and may indeed lead to the EU having to adapt. Macron has bought some time in France, but should he fail (as others have), in his big plans then France could soon be right back in the melting pot.

I can you can’t. YOU were the only one who used the word disintegrate about the EU last year. As for my comment, thinking the EU would need to change or fall apart wasn’t such a strange view given Brexit, Le Pen and the disgruntlement in Germany and other countries.

Im all for anything that works. I still believe that most of the main gripes out there can be solved with better policies under the current system. Maybe PR is the way forward.

So actually the only person who mentioned the EU disintegrating was you I wouldn’t waste your time dredging anything else up, I’m only here to chew the fat. It will either work or it won’t and we’ll know for sure one day.

I don’t know a lot about the Nordic model but from what I’ve read their religion plays a large part in allowing it to work and a lot of people say it would be very hard to scale up to a country of our size. Have any U.K. parties advocated implementing it?

Lol No links I see. Im pretty sure I didn’t say the EU would disintegrate by now, in fact a quick search in this thread shows the only person using that word about the EU is YOU last year. As for the rest I think I talked about a deal within 12 months of the negotiations and “access” to the single market. As for where we are now, I still think a deal will be done.

Apparently according to the comments, it’s very good in pointing out the problems but less good on solutions. I think most people would agree that the current system has its faults, but as yet I’ve heard very little about any other system working better or how a UK government could implement such unilaterally (never mind within the EU). Unfortunately I think the solutions to most people’s concerns would fade away if politicians would put some long term policies in place regarding housing and productivity. The Tories are currently a fag end government and I have no faith in McDonnel.