Baggio

Or we could just sell Owen and buy someone else more suited to whatever system we want to use.

Aye, they often play with two disciplined DM's. As you say though, where would Owen (or indeed Martins) fit into that. Martins could play out on the left or through the middle, he's the same type of player as Eto'o and he often cuts in from the left for Barcelona. Rijkaard has stuck to this iirc from the word go. ................Eto'o................. Ronny........Xavi...........Messi Eto'o and Ronaldinho often swap positions for large portions of the game, Eto'o spent the majority of the CL final out on the left.

That's exactly it Baggio. 4231. Well then why not have Martins further forward than Owen. Or is that tearing up the handbook? Apart from scoring goals Owen offers little else in the way of team play, he would be ineffective out wide.

Aye, they often play with two disciplined DM's. As you say though, where would Owen (or indeed Martins) fit into that. Martins could play out on the left or through the middle, he's the same type of player as Eto'o and he often cuts in from the left for Barcelona.

Spanish clubs play the best formation, 4-2-3-1 with 2 holding players leaving 4 attack minded players with very little defensive responsibilities. Doubt it would work with Owen though.

So what did Keegan have going for him that would justify him being a good Director of Football then Leazes? You can answer my other questions too if you can.

It must be a kick in the teeth for a young striker like Andy Carroll trying to break through.

Cisse and Garcia. We'll have to agree to disagree as I can't think of one team that's been successful playing one up top with a striker that can't hold the ball up.

Why would someone below us in the league - or in a lower division - laugh at us ? Besides, what happens on message boards doesn't happen in real life so I wouldn't worry about it EDIT/PS You don't really understand football fan banter do you ? Is that a joke?

Both formations are basically the same thing, you defend as a 4-5-1 and attack as a 4-3-3, the problem will be when we brake on the counter attack and expect Owen to hold the ball up until Martins and Dyer get forward to support him. They tried him there a few times for England and it didn't work, one of the main doubts Rafa had about bringing him back to Liverpool was that he can't really play in any other formation apart from 4-4-2.

Owen doesn't have the ability to play the up top on his own, especially with the long ball shite we play.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...pur/3987327.stm 14-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-1 Liverpool 21-08-2004 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Tottenham 25-08-2004 English Premier West Brom 1-1 Tottenham 28-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-0 Birmingham 12-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-0 Norwich 19-09-2004 English Premier Chelsea 0-0 Tottenham 25-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-1 Man Utd 02-10-2004 English Premier Everton 0-1 Tottenham 18-10-2004 English Premier Portsmouth 1-0 Tottenham 23-10-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-2 Bolton 30-10-2004 English Premier Fulham 2-0 Tottenham Jol's record wasn't much better for the rest of the season with the club finishing 9th, saying that no manager can be expected to walk into a club and win every game from day one, it's a building process. The difference is, which you're finding it hard to get your head around, is that we are £80 million in debt where Spurs have the money, he may not make it but when a scout who has spotted the majority of Arsenal's youth team tells you he's worth the money then you have to take notice. Different from our chairman who signed a similar size cheque for a 28 year old player who we haven't even scouted on the basis of one of Souness' friends telling him he was a top 3 player in Spain. Nobody can name another board who will come in and make us better, you know that so why you keep asking I'm not sure. Good boards back their chosen appointments as much as possible. Why is this a difficult concept ? And why are you slating the board for finding the money to buy Souness player, Luque, and not for Robsons player, Miguel ? As i said, slate the board for buying players, and slate them for not. You couldn't make it up. I keep asking for the simple reason, is why promote change when you have no idea who will be better, which is nothing other than the actions of an idiot. I'm not slating the board for backing the manager so don't try and twist my words to suit your argument, what I said was when it comes to identifying talent to sign I'd much rather take the word of someone who scouted the majority of Arsenal's successful youth team over Souness mate. Don't you agree? If you were chairman would you back the manager with £10 million to sign a player who the club hasn't scouted but your managers mate said he was good? You are right we have no idea if a new board will be better, but how much longer do you think the club can go on with the level of spending with the current board? Do you think this board can take us further? We're £80 million in debt, you say it's 'manageable' but it's getting bigger year after year, how much longer do you think this can go on? The fact is the club can't afford to go out and buy several big name players to improve the squad, I put forward a suggestion for a DOF and use the examples of how it has been successful at both Arsenal and Spurs in redeveloping the squad on a budget (nothing to do with the last decade before you start) yet you see this as ridiculous, before you bring up Ray Wilkins at Fulham he was manager not a DOF. How would you like to see us go about it? Do you think we should keep borrowing to buy players in the hope that we'll get it right? Do you worry about us doing a Leeds? it sounds from here you are slating the board for spending money and not spending money, in fact you are. Keegan was the DOF at Fulham, not Wilkins, as I have pointed this out to you before. How good a DOF was Keegan ? He was anonymous until he was manager, and also proves a DOF doesn't necessarily appoint a good manager as he appointed Wilkins. So - more bollocks from you. I am not interested in fancy titles, they are bollocks too. The manager is the main man and the one man who decides how you tick as a club. Don't bother coming out with the crap about Arsenal too. Everybody wants to be like Arsenal over the last decade and have a manager like Wenger, we have came a damn sight nearer to most clubs to them. No, we aren;t going to end up like Leeds. BTW, where Leeds are is where we were when the Halls and Shepherd took over the club. As STevie says above to danthebrain, so many of our fans are cretins these days. Next. It's not a case of slating the board for spending money and not spending money, it's a case of being careful with our money. You didn't answer my question, in fact you've avoided most of them - If you were chairman would you back the manager with £10 million to sign a player who the club hasn't scouted but your managers mate said he was good? How do you think the club will clear the debts of £80 million and still try and be the 5th best club over the next decade? What does Keegan know about being a DOF? Has he ever acted as a scout in the past? Keegan is possibly the worst person you would want as a DOF after he scraped the reserves here, forcing promising young players like Michael Carrick to leave and find first team football elsewhere, if there was ever a manager with a short term plan it was him which explains why he won fuck all as a manager.

Tom Hicks has outlined Liverpool's new owners' determination to offer manager Rafa Benitez the support he needs to make the club champions. On Tuesday, Hicks, along with his American business partner George Gillett Jnr, was presented as the new custodian of the Premiership club. Reports have suggested the duo will provide Benitez with a huge transfer kitty in a bid to close the gap on Chelsea and Manchester United at the top of the table. While Hicks was not willing to divulge any figures, he confirmed the intention to back Benitez's plans for moulding a competitive squad. "Talking to Rafa this morning, he was talking about you need to combine keeping your core players, the need to bring in some top star players and also the need to develop your own young players," said Hicks at a press conference live on Sky Sports News. "Young players are the lifeblood of any team and we talked a lot about how we could improve the whole development process. "We're not going to put a budget on what we are going to do. We will let Rafa and Rick (Parry) bring us their plans, then we'll support those plans. "If we have the chance to get a great player, we'll get great players, but that's Rick's job, that's Rafa's job to help bring us those requests." Hicks also confirmed that he will be the club's co-chairman, along with Gillett, with David Moores taking on the role of Honorary Life President. He added: "We decided the tallest partner can be chairman! "We are going to be co-chairmen. We are equal partners in every sense of the word and we will each have one of our sons on the board as well. "That's the kind of relationship you have to have to be successful. George and I feel we now have that knowledge and confidence to be successful. "Both of our styles is to be successful, but in the sports industry you depend on the people who run that business. In this case, Rick is running the business and we'll be his board members."

Leazes Mag will cross you off his list of good posters for that comment, Sniffer.

I'll buy the second series when it's out on dvd, better than watching it one week and missing it the next tbh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...pur/3987327.stm 14-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-1 Liverpool 21-08-2004 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Tottenham 25-08-2004 English Premier West Brom 1-1 Tottenham 28-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-0 Birmingham 12-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-0 Norwich 19-09-2004 English Premier Chelsea 0-0 Tottenham 25-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-1 Man Utd 02-10-2004 English Premier Everton 0-1 Tottenham 18-10-2004 English Premier Portsmouth 1-0 Tottenham 23-10-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-2 Bolton 30-10-2004 English Premier Fulham 2-0 Tottenham Jol's record wasn't much better for the rest of the season with the club finishing 9th, saying that no manager can be expected to walk into a club and win every game from day one, it's a building process. The difference is, which you're finding it hard to get your head around, is that we are £80 million in debt where Spurs have the money, he may not make it but when a scout who has spotted the majority of Arsenal's youth team tells you he's worth the money then you have to take notice. Different from our chairman who signed a similar size cheque for a 28 year old player who we haven't even scouted on the basis of one of Souness' friends telling him he was a top 3 player in Spain. Nobody can name another board who will come in and make us better, you know that so why you keep asking I'm not sure. Good boards back their chosen appointments as much as possible. Why is this a difficult concept ? And why are you slating the board for finding the money to buy Souness player, Luque, and not for Robsons player, Miguel ? As i said, slate the board for buying players, and slate them for not. You couldn't make it up. I keep asking for the simple reason, is why promote change when you have no idea who will be better, which is nothing other than the actions of an idiot. I'm not slating the board for backing the manager so don't try and twist my words to suit your argument, what I said was when it comes to identifying talent to sign I'd much rather take the word of someone who scouted the majority of Arsenal's successful youth team over Souness mate. Don't you agree? If you were chairman would you back the manager with £10 million to sign a player who the club hasn't scouted but your managers mate said he was good? You are right we have no idea if a new board will be better, but how much longer do you think the club can go on with the level of spending with the current board? Do you think this board can take us further? We're £80 million in debt, you say it's 'manageable' but it's getting bigger year after year, how much longer do you think this can go on? The fact is the club can't afford to go out and buy several big name players to improve the squad, I put forward a suggestion for a DOF and use the examples of how it has been successful at both Arsenal and Spurs in redeveloping the squad on a budget (nothing to do with the last decade before you start) yet you see this as ridiculous, before you bring up Ray Wilkins at Fulham he was manager not a DOF. How would you like to see us go about it? Do you think we should keep borrowing to buy players in the hope that we'll get it right? Do you worry about us doing a Leeds?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...pur/3987327.stm 14-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-1 Liverpool 21-08-2004 English Premier Newcastle 0-1 Tottenham 25-08-2004 English Premier West Brom 1-1 Tottenham 28-08-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-0 Birmingham 12-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-0 Norwich 19-09-2004 English Premier Chelsea 0-0 Tottenham 25-09-2004 English Premier Tottenham 0-1 Man Utd 02-10-2004 English Premier Everton 0-1 Tottenham 18-10-2004 English Premier Portsmouth 1-0 Tottenham 23-10-2004 English Premier Tottenham 1-2 Bolton 30-10-2004 English Premier Fulham 2-0 Tottenham Jol's record wasn't much better for the rest of the season with the club finishing 9th, saying that no manager can be expected to walk into a club and win every game from day one, it's a building process. The difference is, which you're finding it hard to get your head around, is that we are £80 million in debt where Spurs have the money, he may not make it but when a scout who has spotted the majority of Arsenal's youth team tells you he's worth the money then you have to take notice. Different from our chairman who signed a similar size cheque for a 28 year old player who we haven't even scouted on the basis of one of Souness' friends telling him he was a top 3 player in Spain. Nobody can name another board who will come in and make us better, you know that so why you keep asking I'm not sure.

As a club I don't think you can fault the way they are being run off the field, I personally don't rate Jol that highly as a coach but even if they replace him they will still have a solid structure to build on which was put together by a DOF, even the shit they have signed they've sold on at a profit. Funnily enough Leazes slags off the idea of a Director of Football like Spurs have but then talks about how much he admires Arsene Wenger and his youth policy, not realising it's the same person that scouted before bring to Wenger's attention these young players Arsenal have brought through recently. incorrect and not even interpreting what I have said in the slightest, deliberately to make you look less of a tit I suspect. A few weeks ago you said Spurs had a "plan".....I say, as I've always done, that a "plan" is bollocks because ALL clubs have a "plan"....they appoint a manager for a contract and therein lies their "plan". Its the manager and the manager alone who is important. Furthermore, to suggest that a 10m bid for a 17 year old footballer wouldn't effect a clubs resources is as big a load of bollocks as I've ever read on here. I also asked you if you think Spurs would have finished as high last season under Santini as they did under Jol. The answer is probably "no". So that tells you the "plan" is bollocks, its the manager that counts. Wenger is simply a brilliant manager, full stop. Because he has good judgement and has got his strategy and his judgement correct, to a degree where you could see him succeeding anywhere he went. Fact is also, nobody qualifies for europe more than 4 other clubs during a time span of a decade, without it being part of a "plan" - if you put such a high stock in such things, and backing their managers. The trouble is, people like you use this word "plan" as the cliche of the moment to make you sound like you know what you are talking about. The simple fact is, you and your ilk have your heads up your arse about the current board so much you are completely reluctant, or more likely unable, to give them any credit for anything. I don't know what the idiots will do or say if we are taken over by a board who don't have the ambition to back their managers anymore, like the current board. Finally, after all this time debating these issues, I am STILL waiting for someone to tell us who these directors waiting in the backround with the desire and the guarantee they will improve on regular UEFA Cup qualification over a decade, as you appear to think it is, or should be, so easy. Your first point about Santini and would they have been as good if he had stayed, I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that they wouldn't have been as good considering he was only there for 13 matches, he started brightly winning most of his opening games but results took a turn for the worse before he left for personal reasons, apparently his wife was ill which were the reasons for his departure. As for the £10 million for Bale not having too much of an impact on the clubs finances, they are a PLC with a cash positive bank balance so the money they would have spent on him wouldn't have the same impact on them in the way it would have on us, Bale's transfer fee is sat in their bank account where as we would have to borrow to finance the deal. Serious question Leazes, do you think we will be the 5th best team in England over the next decade?

Woodgate hasn't agreed to the move yet.

Well a number of Spurs fans aren't happy with the setup: http://www.gg-chat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=70196 Personally, I'm not convinced by the Chairman - DoF - Coach setup and would rather have the more traditional Chairman - Manager - Chief Scout heirarchy (while still recognising the importance of the latter). If Spurs want to get rid of Jol (they should) then which top class managers are going to want the job knowing they wont have control over which players the club buys and sells (even more so than just the chairman having a say)? Even if they get someone, with that system there are now 3 big egos to potentialy clash and fall out rather than the normal 2. Who said the manager has no say who they buy or sell? The understanding of DOF role is that the manager highlights a position in his squad that needs strengthening then the DOF will scout several players in that position, before bringing his findings to the manager so he can have the final decision. It's how Wenger does it at Arsenal, Jol does it at Spurs and Mourinho does it at Chelsea. A Director of Football is basically someone who deals with all aspects to the playing side of the club apart from first team tactics and training, which is much better than having Roeder ringing around for loan player who he's never seen play.

Breaking news on Sky Sports now. No mention of what the transfer fee might be.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ugh/6333175.stm Madrid say Woodgate sold to Boro Real Madrid have announced they have agreed the permanent transfer of England defender Jonathan Woodgate to Middlesbrough. Woodgate has been on loan at the Riverside Stadium since summer 2006. More to follow.

Same with Babayaro, sadly. and, it seems, bramble too - that is if the rumours are to be believed and roeder really is moronic enough to hand him a new contract I'd be surprised if Bramble was on that much compared to Baba and Carr, he signed as a youngster with potential and hasn't had any contract extensions that I know of. I'd guess he'd be on the same as Milner and Jenas when they joined.

Whats happend to the C word?

He had some brass neck on him like, to carry on spouting shite after he'd been exposed that time. If anything the lies just got more and more outlandish after that. Weren't him and Li3nZ going to have a boxing match at one point to settle their differences? Wasn't that Li3nZ and Bluestar? Perhaps. I'm sure Blaydon claimed he was a boxing champ though, which might account for my confusion. I think Li3nZ's brother was a boxing champ too so they definitely discussed boxing-perhaps it was Bluestar who threatended to knock his teeth down his throat though. On a related note, I was convinced you'd once claimed to be black only for you to strenuously deny this, so perhaps my information is just completely shot to shit and I just imagine things. I remember you claiming he had claimed that. I might have done actually. I was going out with a black lass at the time and being young and a bit sensitive to racist remarks I fired up over something or other, it seemed to go over people's heads that the weemee (or something like that) avatars everyone had made of themselves showed me as being white. I used to fall out with everyone back then tbf. I seem to remember someone saying something and you replying with 'I'm black you twat' Sorry Cath. twat tbh