NJS

One more point than I expected. Hopefully the end of Ameobi. Midfield lack of creation again - not expecting any change there but still disappointing - will be interesting to see of he tries the supposed 4-3-3 against Spurs.

He has actually, was on the news this morning. Slight Fair play to him although I'd also ask why they are allowed to wear scarves as masks very much a la protesteors which he was.

It would be interesting to see if any "civilian" assaults which produced stress-related heart attacks led to more serious charges.

Not really - last couple of years I've only been to the London games which are always civilised these days and Sunderland. The last two years for the latter I've gone by train/metro and found it a strange mix of very decent coppers and ones who look like they are itching for it to kick off all the time - maybe they are the football fans who feel the tension. I'd fully admit that my attitudes and experiences were formed by away games in the good/bad old days and things have changed a lot - however I'd also argue that the protests we've referred to here and others show that the police themselves haven't necesaarily "calmed down".

My view is that if certain groups - like Muslims, countryside alliance protestors and other "nice" groups are treat in the same way as football fans have been treat for 30 years then the outrage may lead to changes across the board - if thats the kind of "equality" Fop is after then I agree while relishing the squeals of people I don't like in the meantime. (By relishing I'm obviously not talking about the blokes death). Be nicer if everyone was treated with respect but in lieu of that I'm willing to give this a try. I'm not saying coppers should become powerless - just better trained to spot whether members of whatever group they are policing at the time "deserve" a whack or not on an individual basis - not on a "today we hit people/grin and bear it" policy.

My view is that if certain groups - like Muslims, countryside alliance protestors and other "nice" groups are treat in the same way as football fans have been treat for 30 years then the outrage may lead to changes across the board - if thats the kind of "equality" Fop is after then I agree while relishing the squeals of people I don't like in the meantime. (By relishing I'm obviously not talking about the blokes death).

How does the "institutional racism" pov apply to the recipients of the worst policing of this type - football fans.

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed. There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?). He got his hands out of his pockets and used them to break his fall - if he'd landed on his chest/face with his hands still stuck I may have agreed with you but a "normal" fall for example if he'd tripped couldn't cause a heart attack.

Slightly different occasion but every single one of the protestors who invaded Stansted a couple of months ago met Alex's definition to a tee.

One parallel it does have with Menezes is that the Met haven't learned that smearing people they've "killed" as a PR exercise comes back to bite them on the arse - they really are fucking stupid.

I;ve read that and accept it which makes the way he walks in front of them more strange - I'd stop short of "asking for it" but definitely weird nontheless.

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo. Anyone with even 2 brain cells would have realised that "dawdling" in front of a line of riot coppers with dogs was asking for trouble. I have read some reports that he'd been whacked previously to this incident which would explain it but otherwise his actions were a bit daft to say the least. Of course the coppers were out of order but thats what they do - as I've made the point before anyone who has gone to football at anytime in the last 30 years will have seen actions like this or even been the victim if unlucky (I have on a couple of occasions) many many times. This does mean the autopsy/inquest will now be the most manipulated since Dr David Kelly's.

I think someone else said in this thread we should reserve the contempt for the media and/or "fans" rather than Goody and I agreed while still thinking she was a waste of space - exactly my opinion of Diana as it happens. I also agree that Parkinson was as fawning as the Diana/Goody worshippers to his guests.

Either way, the most important factor will be either Ashley selling or getting other money in - whichever league with the cheap ethos will see us struggle - of course probably without Shearer.

Exactly why this OPTA assist is American utter bollocks - there is infinitely more to football than who has the final touch before a scorer.

Making public what they do already.

Nirvana always bring a line in The Simpsons to mind when The Smashing Pumpkins (who I like infinitely more than Nirvana) guested - "Making music for depressed teenagers - like shooting fish in a barrel"

Agree to an extent but I still think we should be able to call puff's tackles when we see them.

They were a pretty good band (though being a Sabbath fan I thought their use of Iommi riffs was apparent) who imo have become over-rated due to James Dean syndrome - I still don't think they would have become as huge as people say if he hadn't died. I also think killing yourself when you have a family should be factored in to the Godhood status.

I agree but I'd guess a neutral would say we had Ginola and Robert who could be defined as divers/professional without the benefit of black & white eyes - or even Shearer. Looking back in history Leeds under Revie and the 80s Liverpool team were both teams full of cunts as well so you can't play the modern/foreign card that easily either. In fact it could be argued our failure has been lack of "professionalism" when we had good teams.

I remember saying early on that he looked good but wasn't nasty enough for an Argie - that puff's tackle on the edge of the box for the first goal was fucking terrible.

Goal difference. Even if we get level on points we are still in the bottom 3. I think we'll be above them next week and by a couple of extra GD - a tight win for us and a slaughtering for them.

So how did Sunderland get a point for losing 2-0 out of interest?

Nolan, Guttierez and Duff/Lovenkrands were all shit - defence aside the complete lack of creativity/chance creation from out midfield is why I still think we're doomed. We need Viduka and Barton back to have even a small chance imo - and that's too much to ask for as we all know.

Compare the safety first of disallowing that one with the one at Anfield a few years ago where it was against the laws of physics for the linesman to see through Given's body but he couldn't wait to flag for a goal.