NJS

and there was me, foolish enough to expect some progress. 2 more points each season for 5 years will takes up to what - 53? Pushing 6th with that many - hallelujah. My reluctant prediction of finding our true position by the start of Feb took into account at least 4 points from these 2 games as well.

Your a journalist's dream, the kind who'd rather lose playing well in a 5-4 than win but not in a pretty way. I'd take 38 1-0 wins all with own goals if it meant success. The Keegan years are long gone, get a reality check. Is there a happy medium? 38 Fulhams would empty the grounds and destroy SKY.

I'd also add that Ashley's stated ambition is to with the league within 5 years - this is where we've moved on from the Shepherd school of thought (UEFA ever year). How many think Allardyce fits that ambition? (whether its realistic or not)

I think in my view Allardyce is "suffering" from continuing where Souness and Roeder left off - frustrating the fans in the same way with mistakes which look obvious. Having said that, that's part of the job - I agree with Jimbo's "embarrassing" description with the point that its a cumulative thing - pride in a decent performance (Arsenal aside) seems like a distant memory. Again you sound like we should settle - do you honestly think that Allardyce is the manager to even have us finishing a constant 5th which now seems like the limit of what we dare to hope? - I don't. This idea that nobody would take us on is bollocks - managers have egos just like players and the good ones would relish it.

On the whole I agree but think Cacapa is better than Taylor - I'd see Cacapa/Faye as my first choice. The Barton thing reminds me of Butt - it looked like there was no way back for him but all it takes is a few decent performances for most people to move on - Barton has shown glimpses of being a decent player but with a lot still to do.

We've played Derby twice which means we have 2 games left with a max of 11 - be still my beating heart. (One of which on current standings is a derby which is more unpredictable than a "normal" game against a shit team). It'll be an improvement, that's all I ask. You're like a Big Brother contestant that wants fame without any of the work. On current performance levels we will be lucky to win any more away games. As I said the mackems at home is unpredictable - 6 points is ambitious. I was willing to take an "average" season if there were signs that we were getting harder to beat and were becoming nastier to play against and upset the good teams a la Bolton. His stuff about not being good enough against the good teams and needing to stop them made/makes sense - what I didn't expect is the same ethos against the shite - that's what I find unacceptable.

We've played Derby twice which means we have 2 games left with a max of 11 - be still my beating heart. (One of which on current standings is a derby which is more unpredictable than a "normal" game against a shit team).

Exactly what I'm on about - not losing to Birmingham, Fulham and Derby is now "an acceptable run".

Most people expected points of Derby and Wigan before the shit hits the fan. Now that we've failed in the first part of that the pressure has increased. (Anyone who considers one point of Derby as a result should be shot)

It should be long enough to see signs of something - hope, promise - call it what you like but just something to give you something to look forward to in the future. If a new manager produces the dross that Allardyce has which is completely without anything but the promise of more football murder to come then yes I would get rid.

No, but nor am I stupid enough to think that changing the manager every 12 games (because you and Jimbo have been advocating sacking him since then) until we get someone who makes the exact team selections I'd like him to, and subs the players I want him to when I want him to is the right thing to do. I mean what happens if we get a new bloke in and he struggles for the first 12 games and you and Jimbo can't see what direction the club is going in? Will it be time for another change? Answer that seriously by the way, cos I can't see how it would be any different if we made another change and you didn't like what he was doing. You'd want shot again. It's fucking ridiculous man. By the way, all this harping on about the mistakes he's making etc. Fair enough, he's doing some stuff I don't quite understand, and I don't always see the sense in, but it's fucking comical the way some on here carry on as if they would be able to walk into the job and do it better. I'm not saying people can't criticise or have an opinion, but seriously the way some go on you'd think a couple of successful seasons on FM08 has actually qualified them to apply for the fucking job when in reality they wouldn't and don't have a fucking clue. I never wanted him and my fears have been realised - he was supposed to be the best english manager available - given the hype I'd expect improvement - there is none.

I honestly don't get this acceptance of us being shit. I know the mackems and others accuse is of having ideas above our station but I think we've been brow-beaten into this idea that mid-table is "okay" and a staging point for the future. Allardyce's 5 year shit is another facet of this - all designed to lower our expectations. They then use the "lack of patience card" if we have the temerity to expect decency. Of course they then expect the mythical support on the basis that if we string too passes together all of a sudden the team are gods. Well it doesn't work for me - I expect NUFC to play good football and I demand that given the money we generate and the amount that the fuckers are paid that they can do the basics. I demand players who can pass a ball. I demand players who can hit the target. I demand a manager who doesn't think stopping utter drivel like Fulham and Derby from playing is a valid basis for anything, let alone winning a football match. I demand a team that will go to Reading, Sunderland and Fulham and actually try and win the game. I won't wait 20 games before judging a team and manager as shite. I won't wait 3 years for a team that will give me any kind of pride and I won't accept that the "top 4" are untouchable. I won't accept that we should be happy to be rivals of Portsmouth and Everton. If this makes me unrealistic or knee-jerk I don't care - the alternative is to watch any love of football I have wither and die.

He took over an average squad which he has strengthened in numbers. The team is worse.

Yes. And yes. Pathetic isn't it. Result - not necessarily - shocking performance - yes. I expect at least 15 out of the 20 left. Are Everton and Pompey "good" teams because the managers have had time or because they have reasonable squads with managers who suit them - I'd argue the latter. I've already given my view on this pathetic "we're 9th, a few points behind 5th" shite - come back when the fixtures have evened themselves out at the end of January.

More of the turgid dross we have come to expect. Another 20 games of this - occasionally we'll play somebody as shit as Brum or Fulham and scrape the odd point. The good teams will laugh at us and we'll be told that finishing 13th/14th is all we should expect. I for one find it unacceptable.

I remember years ago The Sun having a story about a porn version of the Spielberg film called "Schindler's Fist" which asterisked the fist and said the title referred to an act "too obscene to be described in a family newspaper like The Sun" (probably true) but the hypocrisy stank. The funny thing is if all celebs were family people who had no dirty public laundry the papers would wither and die.

11 years away means I've toned down slightly - when I speak to mates or go back up north I just find that injecting more swearing (especially the c word) kickstarts me back to how I was. In general I admire people who keep it eg Lawrie MacMenemy rather than people who semi-deliberately lose it eg Waddler.

Brickbat by Billy Bragg (I really want to add one of those "thread over" lines but realise love songs can be very personal)

Fuckers on trains who sit on the outside and when you go for the empty seat give you a "you've just killed my first born" look. Fuckers on trains who use a slight delay to phone work to announce they won't be in until 9:10 when you can tell just by looking at them that their job is the most unimportant in the world and their lateness DOESN'T FUCKIN MATTER ONE IOTA. Fuckers on trains who tut and whinge at a bunch of shoolkids who are just being kids like calling each other gay etc, etc - were you never a kid you twat!!! Fuckers on trains who nod off then snore and dribble. (Nice pleasant jouney into work this morning)

"You never count your money, when you're sittin' at the table. There'll be time enough for countin', when the dealin's done." Fuck some days I wish you'd just fold'em! Forget all this attractive football shite, we haven't played attractive football consistantly since SBR took the team to third. How are people going to react when at home against Derby Allardyce sets his team to stiffle the opposition? If it works and we win, I'll be over the moon. If Allardyce finishes us higher year on year for (say) 3 years running, getting us back into Europe long term but with some dull football, i'll be more than happy. You seriously want us to appoint a fifth manager in the space of three years, just to avoid the odd bit of boredom, even if there's some fun (like Arsenal) mixed in there. We're already a laughing stock man. Even the mackems accept their lot in life with more dignity than this. Were you a Shepherd fan? Serious question because he was also keen on getting rid of any manager that looked like they might not finish top 5, and that's why most fans can't stand the fat fuck. For sacking people at the wrong time and making the Newcastle job about as appealing as England, though it was very appealing when he took charge. Whats' the point of football? Is it as entertainment or as some point scoring exercise akin to the FTSE index? The way I look at it unless Ashley puts serious money in we aren;t going to win the league or qualify for the CL anytime soon. That leaves at best UEFA places and the cups. Given the seriousness the "big" clubs have placed on the FA cup in recent years thats a longshot. Whats left? Vying with Everton and Pompey for 5th/6th so we can play 10 games against pub teams before failing again? What's left is entertainment - pride in how we play - thats selfish pride btw not this "everyones second team shit". Anything else will soon get the contempt it deserves - falling crowds and more nastiness a la Liverpool game. On the sacking thing as Jimbo has said giving people time makes sense. Recognising you've got the wrong man and changing it makes just as much in my view.

I'd say we're sniffing, but not going so far as to piss on them yet. We're only 5 points off fiifth pace with games against Derby and Wigan coming up. People are still vehemently complaining. Sorry to repeat the point from earlier but after those two games the fixtures get infinitely harder. I'd be very surprised if we're in such a promising position at the end of Jamuary on current form. And again you're talking about where we might be, I'm talking about where we ARE. We ARE 10th - 5 points of 5th - I'm going to take a stand here and say that depsite what people say about not caring where we finish this year that if this was the end of the season I'd find this position combined with the quality of the football to be completely unacceptable. Emphasis on the combination. If we were higher and drab that's okay, likewise entertaining and mid-table - both give hope for the future. If that makes me unrealistic and kneejerk then I don't care.

I'd say we're sniffing, but not going so far as to piss on them yet. We're only 5 points off fiifth pace with games against Derby and Wigan coming up. People are still vehemently complaining. Sorry to repeat the point from earlier but after those two games the fixtures get infinitely harder. I'd be very surprised if we're in such a promising position at the end of Jamuary on current form.

Those of us with severe reservations about his appointment were "fooled" by the argument that with better players and more transfer funds it would be different. What he has done is taken good players down to a sub-Bolton level. This shows he only knows one way to play which is why my reservations have become stronger. I do agree sacking him now would be pointless - but if I were Ashley or Mort I'd be scouring the football world for a replacement with a view to May at the very latest.

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone. Those are our future fixtures, we can only judge the past ones which haven't really been "easy". And in which we've performed better than last year. Judging by the performances so far I expect about 6 points from those games if we're lucky. We'd better not start losing against garbage at home. The same as we took from them last year then. We supposedly now have a much better manager and setup - is it wrong to expect improvements to performances and results? Is it wrong to expect 6 months of "better" management to make a difference?

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone. Those are our future fixtures, we can only judge the past ones which haven't really been "easy". And in which we've performed better than last year. Judging by the performances so far I expect about 6 points from those games if we're lucky. We'd better not start losing against garbage at home.