NJS

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone.

All I want is a bit of good football - too much to ask? I've virtually stopped going to games now - couldn't even be arsed to go to Fulham which would have been easy for me - theres no incentive whatsover apart from seeing mates and drinking - its like the bad days of the 80s/early 90s all over again except at 10 times the cost. Bottom line is I refuse to pay £30/£40/£50 to watch that level of shite - another six months of this (odd victory aside) and the home crowds will reflect that attitude as well. I will also re-iterate my point that our fixtures till now have been easy - I think we're in a very false position.

Bang on. and they are the games that we had no fight for last season and they would have turned us over. Like Derby and Reading? Sunderland with a bit of luck? Another myth is that Allardyce would make us hard to beat - bollocks. If fulham had had McBride back rather than the shit they did have up front they would have beaten us imo - thats how shit we are.

That's from the Allardyce "give me 5 years" sch0ol of bullshit. We have players who cannot pass to a team mate 10 yards away. Players who cannot control the odd ball that does reach them. Players who look like they will never score. Its hardly surprising the football is absolutely diabolical. Fulham were abysmal. But for one moment of quality from Viduka we would have drawn with them to go with our points off Sunderland and Boro and our defeats to Derby and Reading. Can you explain how a team that was "average" last year, bordering on poor but occasionally played a bit of football can actually have gone backwards? I can - selection, tactics and coaching. Can you explain how a team who were as shit as Man City can now be an attractive team (admittedly only at home) - I can - selection, tactics and coaching. I remember a few ugly wins under Keegan, Dalglish and even Bobby - I loved them - none were anywhere near as depressing and worrying as that debacle last night. I'm nailing my colours the Jimbo et als' mast - wrong man for us. Also on being fickle I'm going to sound like LM here but I don't care - I've watched NUFC when we've been properly shit - there was an excuse then - there isn't now - thats the fucking difference.

I think the only players we have who would "work" as the non central front 3 in a 4-3-3 are Milner and N'Zogbia. His problem is that the if thats the way he wants to play there are no places for Owen or Martins.

I wouldn't mind results like that with horrible performances if it at least hadn't looked like it was just as likely Fulham would score.

I've said before he should have been sacked for backing Wright-Philips over the Elliot sending off at Stamford Bridge the other year - but then again he was a typical Spurs cheat as a player. I'm also not frightened to say that being a well spoken black bloke helped get his career started on TV.

Anything which involves dealing with the public where respect is expected. Multiply the aversion by a thousand if it involved dealing with people who'd been drinking.

Still not enough football and "proper" chances created - we now seem to rely on set pieces too much. Also playing against "shut up shop" teams exposes our lack of creative flair. Can't knock the effort/fight/spirit though.

Trying to be an optimist I hope Sam realises thats its "blood and guts" displays like this that will win the fans over and might make him realise why there was such a bad reaction to the 3 shit away performances + Liverpool. Hopefully those will now be seen as the low point. We still need to create more chances and play more football of course.

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid. I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

I've always laughed at Old Firm fans having flags with "100% loyal" on them - apart from odd times when one or the other win everything its a fucking joke to think they've ever been tested on this score. Rest of the post is pretty much spot on as well.

Sam's just been on SSN with his "stop Arsenal playing" mantra - I know it may be realistic but I'd love to ask him at what stage would he change. If he had Liverpool or Man U's present squad would he still approach games against who ever the best side is in the same way? If the answer is yes then I know he's the wrong man for the job.

I think on the last two albums he has been trying to extend himself a bit higher with mixed results - nothing wrong with testing yourself but I agree it was probably better in the past. He's probably paying the price for all the gigs they did when they were on the up - he never exactly holds back when singing live.

I remember that game, not only for their fans starting loads of trouble (luckilly i avoided any, though one fight broke out right next to me but i got away!) but also because Lou McCari being bitter at the stuffing they got was one of the first instigators of getting refs to never give Ginola anything by whingeing about him diving all the time. I'm not sayign he never overplayed things, but often he'd get the shit kicked out of him and be given no protection (Lee Dixon for Arsenal being the ultimate example) and McCari was the one who started it all. Which was made ironic by him being a very typical Man U cheat in his day. I knew about 5 groups of people who went that night - our car load was the only one which saw no bother - we were spawny gets of the highest order judging by all the stories. It was a classic case of a town full of village idiots going daft cos the "big team" were in town- I've been wanting a cup draw ever since.

I think Robson's initial run consisted more of performances like yesterdays - pissers - but you could see the players cared - I can't remember that many like the ones that have characterised this season like Reading, Pompey, SAFC and Liverpool - ones which looked "clueless" as has been said. I also think that it would have been interesting to see what would have happened at the end of 99/00 if we hadn't had the cup run because people just "forgot" about the league.

I know there are better "technical" vocalists than those in bands I like just as I know there are better "technical" guitar players. However its all about the the voice as part of the songs for me so I say Bono.

Dalglish? Ferguson? - not exactly charmers As has been said, unless Sam turns it around quickly and does well, the Shearer Spectre will still hang over him - its a pisser that its there but maybe we do have to get it out of the way then take stock after that (if it fails).

A few mackems realise that what Keane has done makes sense - they weren't going to able to sign mega-stars this summer so he spent a lot of money on building a squad with ordinary-ish players. If they stop up then they can build on that next summer. The problem now is that ironically the fans have bought into this "champions league with 5 years" shite. They haven't done at all badly this season and considering who they've played compared to who we have I'd say they have more "real" points. On Allardyce you also have to consider a few seasons where they he did struggle.

In my own mind I've always countered the argument that Shearer has no experience with comparisons with Keegan, Dalglish to a lesser extent because of his inheritance and lately Keane. I think all three have the character needed to be winners. That doesn't mean I don't think Sam does bus as others have suggested I've always felt he just didn't "suit" us. This view has now been augmented by exactly the points DK makes here - the bargepole factor and the fans backing factor both being huge. Maybe with the right coach it could actually work.

I'm 43 and have no kids - maybe 30 years left if I'm lucky so I consider myself unbiased which is why I do care about the medium/long term. On the whole I lean towards what KCG was suggestion and mirroring modern medicine instead of aggressively pursuing the policy at first we just don't try too hard when illness/disaster strikes.

An individual person's death is always a tragedy which I always have sympathy with but from a big picture pov - KCG is right - unless over-population is tacked the human race is doomed. Even a bird flu pandemic killing 50m wouldn't scratch the surface - we need to lose 2bn people as a starting point imo. I know I sound like a callous bastard but I honestly believe the quality of life for the people who "survive" the next 100 years demands action - there the ones I care about. Of course the problem is that unless theres a helping hand from mother nature (super volcano, asteroid, death of the jet stream etc) then a joint approach by all the worlds countries would be needed which isn't going to happen until we actually face something catastrophic. Even if every country in the EU introduced universal birth control, people would escape to pro-create and you couldn't legislate for the ignorant 3rd world religious countries. Our "best hope" in the long run is either catastrophic climate change, a virulent man made virus or planetary escape.

I know its a cliche but despite the loss its a shame it took such criticism to get a much better performance out of them. They have to realise that if they'd played the same way against Liverpool (and do next Wednesday) then people would have "accepted" the results.

I know I'm going to be called a fence sitter here but.... I very much agree with Gemmill about the matches - I have a season ticket but because of work hadn't been able to get to a game before the Liverpool game so I'd marked it down as my "debut" for the season. However when it came to arranging my plane or train I just realised that partly because I despise Liverpool and could only see a humiliation on the cards but mostly because continuing on from last year I just don't enjoy the trips enough for exactly the reasons stated I just couldn't go through with it. I'm now in two minds whether to do what I did a couple of years ago and sell my ST to a mate for his kid for the rest of the year. However having said that I also think some of the things Barton said are fucking stupid and having been here 5 minutes and been shit he has no right to say them. Its also bullshit to mention Parker, Jenas and Kluivert as they just don't support his case. If this was Nicky Butt or Shay saying these things then I think just about everyone would take it on the chin, hold their hands up and say fair enough - Barton isn't there yet imo.

Yeah part of me agrees but you're/we're propping up a sick regime. They are obviously using this woman as a pawn in a game where they are also playing directly with our goodwill so much like the "she should know the law" angle they must realise there will be a backlash which if it did cause suffering they would equally be responsible for in my view.