US-UK "special relationship"

[thenorthumbrian 0]

I was interested to hear that from today (29/12/2006) the 2nd world war debt which was incurred by Britain as a result of the loans this country took out from America has now been paid off.

 

My first reaction was to think that why did the defeated countries such as Germany and Japan recieve massive aid from the US while we had to take out loans at massive interest rates ? It was almost Britain was punished for being an ally of the US.

 

And the so-called special-relationship between Britain and America seems to overwhemingly favour the US.

 

Tony Blair has been criticised for being too close to Arican foreign policy but he is no different to British prime ministers before him. I remember when Thatcher allowed US planes to bomb Libya flying from UK bases when she was in power when no other country would.

 

Perhaps we in Britain should realise that we are no more and no less than a medium sized European country and behave accordingly. Is it time to consign the one-sided "special-relationship" to history and realise America will always do what they think is best for their own country and start to do the same for ours.

[luckyluke 1]

I assume what we get from the relationship is being allies with the biggest superpower in the world.

[rikko 20]

I assume you are referring to this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm

 

which states the interest rate was 2%, hardly massive, infact it is signifcantly lower then inflation, so the loans were infact paying them selvesoff to an extent as the money itself devalued.

[Isegrim 8890]

My first reaction was to think that why did the defeated countries such as Germany and Japan recieve massive aid from the US while we had to take out loans at massive interest rates ? It was almost Britain was punished for being an ally of the US.

IIRC the UK got more than double the money from the Marhsall plan fund compared to Germany (and rightly so). Germany had to repay a certain amount with the differences on how much and when being settled at a conference in the early 50s and the last installment being repaid in the early 70s.

[Rob W 0]

The "special relationship" works best a ta level that few people are aware of

 

We share intelligence, arms - get a good deal on things like Trident, have VERY good access in Washington at all levels......................

[rikko 20]

The "special relationship" works best a ta level that few people are aware of

 

We share intelligence, arms - get a good deal on things like Trident, have VERY good access in Washington at all levels......................

 

 

That in particular is very very favourable to us.

[thenorthumbrian 0]

The poodle factor ...

From an American government official.

 

"The poodle factor did not begin with Tony Blair, it began, yes, with Winston Churchill."

 

Shows quite a healthy contempt from Americans for us Brits.

 

 

 

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2478592,00.html

Edited December 29, 2006 by thenorthumbrian

[The Fish 9027]

would you like Salt and Vinegar with that chip thenorthumbrian?

 

I'm convinced I could find a stack of quotes from many many sources revealing the UK's contempt of the US, our European "allies", Ireland, etc. etc. etc.

 

your inferiority complex is startling apparent seems to dictate the content of your every contribution to this board.

 

have you nothing to talk about other than how everybody hates/derides/ignores us North-Easterners/British?

[Matt 0]

US aid was primarily intended on preventing the rise of communism in parts of 'western' Europe, especially in Italy.

[snakehips 0]

Wasn't the aid conditions/repayment for the First World War aimed primarily at reducing, as much as possible, the United Kingdom's influence around the world?

 

And once UK's influence had subsided, all aid conditions/repayments for WWII were designed to keep us exactly where the US wanted 'us'??

 

Special relationship? I imagine it does exist in some quarters of either population but as a whole I doubt it is too important to many.

 

Anyway, with luck, myself and mrs hips will be travelling to the US next year, so any lingering special relationship feelings the Americans have for us 'limeys' will have well and truly evaportated by the time our sojourn ends

[Jimbo 133]

Wasn't surrendering the pound sterling as the recognised international currency in place of the US Dollar also a part of the deal, hence oil etc being priced in USD per barrel etc.

[Isegrim 8890]

US aid was primarily intended on preventing the rise of communism in parts of 'western' Europe, especially in Italy.

That's why our lot thankfully got saved from the ideas of Mr. Morgenthau...

[Rob W 0]

NATO was designed to keep the Yuropeans in, the russians out and the Jormans down

 

the Special Relationship goes very very deep - far deeper than most people recognise

 

FFS the Yanks sell (or lease) us Weapons of Mass Destruction - no-one else has ever had such an arrangement with any other country - imagine if we decided to cut the Jormans in on a similar deal

[Guest alex]

What the fuck has this got to do with the Lindisfarne Gospels?

[Rob W 0]

THEM!!

 

They were the 7th Century equivalent of the bloody Readers Digest Special Offer IIRC

 

"We send you a FULLY Illustrated Book of gospels - hand inscribed by geordie craftsmen working under the porsonal supervision of the Venerable Bede and all you have to do is to receive a fully illustrated book of the Bible EVERY year for the next 100 years!! Price 1 groat!! Special bookcase for free!!!"

 

 

PS Geordie Books reserves the right to cancel this part work if the Vikings come

[Meenzer 14096]

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I heard a theory yesterday that Tony Blair is actually a CIA agent planted by the US.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

My first reaction was to think that why did the defeated countries such as Germany and Japan recieve massive aid from the US while we had to take out loans at massive interest rates ? It was almost Britain was punished for being an ally of the US.

 

 

To stop them going Communist.

That was the basic thinking behind the Marshall plan. Give financial aid to Western Europe to keep the Communists out.

[Happy Face 29]

Conservatives promised to run 'pro-American regime'

Leaked dispatch reveals how US diplomats are amused by Britain's 'paranoid' fears about so-called special relationship

 

Conservative party politicians lined up before the general election to promise that they would run a "pro-American regime" and buy more arms from the US if they came to power this year, the leaked American embassy cables show.

 

Despite British leaders' supportive stance, the dispatches also reveal – in what some will see as humiliating detail – how US diplomats in London are amused by what they call Britain's "paranoid" fears about the so-called special relationship.

 

One said the anxious British attitude "would often be humorous if it were not so corrosive" and that it was tempting to take advantage of this neurosis to "make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance". The UK was said to offer "unparalleled" help in promoting America's aims.

 

The incoming Conservatives appear to have made some wide-ranging offers of political co-operation with the US. The cables detail a series of private meetings with Tory frontbenchers, many of whom are now in the cabinet.

 

Liam Fox, now the defence secretary, promised to buy American military equipment, while the current foreign secretary, William Hague, offered the ambassador a "pro-American" government. Hague also said the entire Conservative leadership were, like him, "staunchly Atlanticist" and "children of Thatcher".

 

Fox met the US ambassador, Louis Susman, a year ago. In a 10 December 2009 cable marked "confidential", Susman recorded: "Liam Fox affirmed his desire to work closely with the US if the Conservative party wins power … adding that 'we (Conservatives) intend to follow a much more pro-American profile in procurement'." He reportedly went on: "Increasing US-UK 'interoperability is the key' since the US and UK will continue to fight together in the future" and "expressed confidence regarding US leadership in Afghanistan and optimism about the way forward".

 

The frontbencher admitted that there was an opposed faction within Tory ranks. "Fox asserted that some within the Conservative party are less enthusiastic, asserting that 'we're supposed to be partners with, not supplicants to, the United States'. Fox said he rebuffed these assertions, and he welcomed the ambassador's reassurance that senior US leaders value the UK as an equal partner."

 

Hague pledged his own loyalty in an earlier meeting with the US deputy chief of mission, Richard LeBaron. A confidential cable marked "no foreigners" from 1 April 2008 records: "The deputy chief of mission asked Hague whether the relationship between the UK and the US was 'still special'. Hague said he, David Cameron and George Osborne were 'children of Thatcher' and staunch Atlanticists … For his part, said Hague, he has a sister who is American, spends his own vacations in America and, like many similar to him, considers America the 'other country to turn to'.

 

"Asking his senior adviser her views, [Arminka] Helic (who is Bosnian), said: 'America is the essential country.'

 

"Hague said whoever enters 10 Downing Street as prime minister soon learns of the essential nature of the relationship with America. He went on: 'We want a pro-American regime. We need it. The world needs it.' "

 

These enthusiastic approaches came against a backdrop of what American officials termed British "paranoia" following the arrival of Barack Obama as an unknown presidential quantity.

 

In a lengthy classified dispatch in February 2009 headed "The British ask, is our special relationship still special in Washington?" LeBaron wrote: "More than one HMG senior official asked embassy officers whether President Obama meant to send a signal in his inaugural address about US-UK relations by quoting Washington during the revolutionary war [against Britain], while the removal of the Churchill bust from the Oval office consumed much UK newsprint."

 

The Times had written, allegedly quoting British embassy sources in Washington, about the distress caused by the removal of the bust, lent to George Bush by Tony Blair from the UK government art collection, in happier times. It was headlined: "Churchill bust casts shadow over special relationship".

 

LeBaron noted dryly: "This period of excessive UK speculation about the relationship is more paranoid than usual … This over-reading would often be humorous, if it were not so corrosive."

 

He advised against taking advantage of British neuroses and said the UK remained highly useful to the US because of its "unparalleled" help in promoting America's aims. "Though tempting to argue that keeping HMG off balance about its current standing with us might make London more willing to respond favourably when pressed for assistance, in the long run it is not in US interests to have the UK public concluding the relationship is weakening, on either side.

 

"The UK's commitment of resources – financial, military, diplomatic – in support of US global priorities remains unparalleled; a UK public confident that the USG values those contributions and our relationship, matters to US national security."

 

Britain's willingness to invest in expensive weaponry is a key part of the so-called special relationship. The UK's annual military budget is running at £37bn a year.

 

Fox's reference to more procurement from the US shows his zest for heavy spending on two future big-ticket items – the joint strike fighter [JSF], and the £20bn replacement for the Trident nuclear weapons system. The largely US-built JSF will be formidably expensive, and the original scheme was for Britain to buy up to 138 of them at £150m each, to go on giant aircraft carriers.

 

Fox is having an uphill fight: the recent defence review promised only to buy a cheaper version, and to cut the numbers of planes. Some are urging the purchase of US-made drones instead: the Ministry of Defence recently announced the purchase of 100 small Desert Hawk III drones and five extra Reaper killer drones. Other US purchases may be in the pipeline. Frustratingly perhaps for Fox, decisions on the Trident replacement scheme, which will rely on submarine-launched ballistic missiles leased from the US, have been delayed until after the next election.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/de...ationship/print

[Happy Face 29]

2006...

 

Britain should drop its "slavish" support for the United States and restore "moral authority" to its foreign policy, David Cameron has said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-40...l#ixzz178UkL1Ry

 

[Park Life 70]

The "special relationship" works best a ta level that few people are aware of

 

We share intelligence, arms - get a good deal on things like Trident, have VERY good access in Washington at all levels......................

 

Err lapdogs is the word you're looking for Robster.

[Rob W 0]

Wellllll - its probably a bit better than whining for scraps on the street