Roeder

[snakehips 0]

All this stuff about accepting mediocrity and that winds me up a little bit. There's only 4 clubs can get into the Champions league and it's a decade since we batted above our average and automatically qualified for it. A few years earlier it was Leeds that were doing the same, or Norwich before them so we can be grateful for the odd European push when we have a competent manager rather than Nationwide relegation battles. We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

 

When a manager like Souness is producing tepid football, loosing regularly and dragging us into a relegation battle, fair enough, get rid. When a manager has rescued us from that battle, took us into Europe, has us heading to the quarter finals, and is only 6 points off that European place again, I'll complain the odd match was shite, but don't see why he should get sacked.

 

Your putting a ridiculously positive spin on it in that last paragraph. Roeder did well last year, but that was partly down to the new manager effect and a lot of help from Shearer imo. Things have been much worse this year. We are NOT going to qualify for Europe, not even the shitty UEFA cup. Getting to the quarter finals of the UEFA is NOT a significant achievement. We are out both domestic cups, getting beat 5-1 by a Championship side at home ffs! We are 6 points above 16th in the league, in what must be the worst Premiership ever.

 

But for me, the telling thing has been the abysmal quality of the matches we have been forced to watch. We're a team of misfits, there is no sense of direction or cohesiveness in the team and seemingly little hope of improvement. I can understand that Patrokles may be unaware of this, but surely you can see it HF?

 

There is no chance that Roeder will be sacked. He's the cheap, easy option and you get the impression Shepherd has burnt all his bridges. For me, this is what is so depressing about the whole situation.

 

What he said.

 

The overwhelming thing that shouts from this thread is one of resignation that Rodders isn't going to take us where we want to go.

 

I can't see Rodders getting sacked - unless we nose-dive next season - but I can see a mutual re-assigning of positions when another manager comes in; maybe Shearer.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think we're going anywhere upwards with Rodders in charge.

[Happy Face 29]

But for me, the telling thing has been the abysmal quality of the matches we have been forced to watch. We're a team of misfits, there is no sense of direction or cohesiveness in the team and seemingly little hope of improvement. I can understand that Patrokles may be unaware of this, but surely you can see it HF?

 

 

 

Not sure this still stands, but I only posted it a few weeks ago...

 

Out of 25 league games only 3 players have been involved in 20 of those games. Martins, Milner and Parker. Given that only one of those played more than 20 games for us last season, I'm not surprised few of the players have settled straight into a fluid passing game.

 

A few more games for a few players since then, but i think it's been understandable.

[Happy Face 29]

[...] We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

[...]

And that's what winds me up. I don't think anyone is thinking of Newcastle having a "divine right" to success. But I think that Newcastle's basis is far better than Blackburn's, Everton's, Bolton's and Villa's (until the take over). Even with keeping the injuries in mind we were in a much better position at the start of the season than those teams, but still fail to match them. And I don't think anyone is being put under unfair pressure. Roeder himself said that last year's position has to be the bench mark for this season.

 

But for the record: I am actually not for sacking Roeder or rather moving him back to the academy=. Well, not without having a better solution up the sleeves. But I think Newcastle have to question themselves if they really tap the potential. And IMHO lowering the ambition would mean to accept mediocrity...

 

But of those teams we're only doing better than Villa, and most Newcastle fans wanted MON, he's had a transfer window and money too. Far less injuries though.

[donaldstott 0]

Whilst i'm certainly not excited by Roeder (and certainly not his dreary press interviews) i think he has done a commendable job. This season at least he has never had a squad that even resembles fully fit.

 

The test comes when it is, but fear that when it is we'll be ultimately disappointed?

[Happy Face 29]

I will say Roeder is not perfect. I'm just happy to stick with him until a top draw choice becomes available and expresses interest.

 

I have nothing but dread at the thought of our chairman scouring the world through all the best managers that are dying to come here in the summer and appointing David Pleat, Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce or David O'Leary.

[Gemmill 36217]

By the way, in all my Roeder criticism, I'm not suggesting we get rid. Not without a top class replacement. But nor am I going to kid myself that his is the way forward, or take the position that in the absence of a top class replacement I should stay silent on all of Roeder's shortcomings.

[Isegrim 9038]

[...] We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

[...]

And that's what winds me up. I don't think anyone is thinking of Newcastle having a "divine right" to success. But I think that Newcastle's basis is far better than Blackburn's, Everton's, Bolton's and Villa's (until the take over). Even with keeping the injuries in mind we were in a much better position at the start of the season than those teams, but still fail to match them. And I don't think anyone is being put under unfair pressure. Roeder himself said that last year's position has to be the bench mark for this season.

 

But for the record: I am actually not for sacking Roeder or rather moving him back to the academy=. Well, not without having a better solution up the sleeves. But I think Newcastle have to question themselves if they really tap the potential. And IMHO lowering the ambition would mean to accept mediocrity...

 

But of those teams we're only doing better than Villa, and most Newcastle fans wanted MON, he's had a transfer window and money too. Far less injuries though.

And a far worse starting position. We'll have to wait and see what happens there during the summer...

 

And I don't accept the injury excuse for our style of play at all. In most of the games we were able to put a quite good team out with (except of left back) players being comfortable in their positions. If the team plays badly it is mainly down to the manager not being able to give the team any structure. This especially applies to form a working partnership out of the three of Emre, Butt and Parker in the centre of the park and the inability of stopping Bramble to hit aimless long balls into all directions.

[Happy Face 29]

By the way, in all my Roeder criticism, I'm not suggesting we get rid. Not without a top class replacement. But nor am I going to kid myself that his is the way forward, or take the position that in the absence of a top class replacement I should stay silent on all of Roeder's shortcomings.

 

Like a husband of 30 years with a minging wife who knows divorce would leave him with just his hand.

[Jimbo 133]

From my point of view, he's steadied the ship, we are no longer sinking, but we are still heading towards the reef.

[Happy Face 29]

I'd love to see how Roeder does with a full strength, steady squad/team (seemed to be ok late last season, but as people say, it's somehow easier when you're not full term). Problem is, even as things are improving on the injury front, it unsettles the team even more. Accomodating players who aren't match fit in an attempt to get them playing at their best unsettles a tea of players that were starting to gel.

 

For Example we had excellent and fine results against Liverpool and Waregem, but dropping Milner against Wigan to accomodate Zoggy (when he's been our best player this year) contributed to a horror show that continued into Saturday.

 

Long term injuries getting fit is damaging us as much as losing them in the first place.

[Gemmill 36217]

The more players he has at his disposal, the less sure Roeder is of how best to employ them.

[snakehips 0]

From my point of view, he's steadied the ship, we are no longer sinking, but we are still heading towards the reef.

 

Posted by a (w)anchor!

 

[snakehips 0]

These hoofs up the park by Bramble can only be sanctioned by Rodders imo.

 

And as to Milner trying to beat his man and get the cross in, what is the plan there? So Oba 'the leap' Martins or Keiron 'Toshack' Dyer can get a header in at goal??? Do me a favour

[Happy Face 29]

The more players he has at his disposal, the less sure Roeder is of how best to employ them.

 

Indeed.

 

Why does he insist on rushing people back for important league games when there's a few Uefa cup games around the corner against pap? I think he's fully aware a trophy will go down well and all his eggs are entirely in that basket.

[Happy Face 29]

These hoofs up the park by Bramble can only be sanctioned by Rodders imo.

 

And as to Milner trying to beat his man and get the cross in, what is the plan there? So Oba 'the leap' Martins or Keiron 'Toshack' Dyer can get a header in at goal??? Do me a favour

 

 

Martins has leaped like a salmon for a few hasn't he?

[Ketsbaia 0]

These hoofs up the park by Bramble can only be sanctioned by Rodders imo.

 

And as to Milner trying to beat his man and get the cross in, what is the plan there? So Oba 'the leap' Martins or Keiron 'Toshack' Dyer can get a header in at goal??? Do me a favour

 

 

Martins has leaped like a salmon for a few hasn't he?

 

Yep. Looks very good in the air.

[David Kelly 1117]

I'm not at all convinced with Roeder. The football is so uninspiring that it's beyond belief. I go to the games these days with no more expectation of seeing anything approaching entertainment than I did under Souness tbh.

His decisions when he has had them to be made have been extremely poor imo. Playing with Butt & Parker in the centre of a midfield at home against a team of the Smoggies quality is nothing short of pathetic. Playing Martins and Dyer up front and then allowing Given and Shambles to hump long balls up to them all game is laughable. Spending what appears to have amounted to a third of our transfer funds on a player who's position we were decently stocked in while not doing anything about our complete lack of anything resembling fullbacks is nothing short of criminal.

Bringing in only one player in January and then playing him in place of our only defender who's looked to have any hope of being of the required standard is just plain wrong.

The list of his errors keeps growing while the list of the positive things remains very stagnent and in some cases seems to be shrinking.

The fact that we are as high up the league as we are says more about the actual quality of some of the players that we have than his ability to get anything out of them. I still believe that we do have some good footballers at the club but I don't believe in Roeders ability to mould them into a team. We have never looked like a TEAM at any point during the season as far as I'm concerned.

As has previously been alluded to, I believe the whole 'success' he achieved last season was mostly down to him simply not being Souness giving a boost of morale to the team and fans. Now that we are confronted with the reality of who our manager actually is, that morale has quickly evaporated.

I don't like the idea of changing managers so often and I do concede that he's probably done as good a job as we could expect given his limited abilities and the chairman's limited expectations. But this club is big enough in terms of support, and therefore access to resources that other clubs could only dream of, to expect to be able to move forward from the position we currently find ourselves in. I cannot see this happening under Roeder so I can only look forward to the day when he is replaced and can only hope that somehow the fat man can actually deliver on his promises to get the right man in for once.

[Jimbo 133]

From my point of view, he's steadied the ship, we are no longer sinking, but we are still heading towards the reef.

 

Posted by a (w)anchor!

 

 

 

and seaman everywhere......

[ewerk 27150]

I'm not at all convinced with Roeder. The football is so uninspiring that it's beyond belief. I go to the games these days with no more expectation of seeing anything approaching entertainment than I did under Souness tbh.

His decisions when he has had them to be made have been extremely poor imo. Playing with Butt & Parker in the centre of a midfield at home against a team of the Smoggies quality is nothing short of pathetic. Playing Martins and Dyer up front and then allowing Given and Shambles to hump long balls up to them all game is laughable. Spending what appears to have amounted to a third of our transfer funds on a player who's position we were decently stocked in while not doing anything about our complete lack of anything resembling fullbacks is nothing short of criminal.

Bringing in only one player in January and then playing him in place of our only defender who's looked to have any hope of being of the required standard is just plain wrong.

The list of his errors keeps growing while the list of the positive things remains very stagnent and in some cases seems to be shrinking.

The fact that we are as high up the league as we are says more about the actual quality of some of the players that we have than his ability to get anything out of them. I still believe that we do have some good footballers at the club but I don't believe in Roeders ability to mould them into a team. We have never looked like a TEAM at any point during the season as far as I'm concerned.

As has previously been alluded to, I believe the whole 'success' he achieved last season was mostly down to him simply not being Souness giving a boost of morale to the team and fans. Now that we are confronted with the reality of who our manager actually is, that morale has quickly evaporated.

I don't like the idea of changing managers so often and I do concede that he's probably done as good a job as we could expect given his limited abilities and the chairman's limited expectations. But this club is big enough in terms of support, and therefore access to resources that other clubs could only dream of, to expect to be able to move forward from the position we currently find ourselves in. I cannot see this happening under Roeder so I can only look forward to the day when he is replaced and can only hope that somehow the fat man can actually deliver on his promises to get the right man in for once.

 

 

[Fop 1]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

[Isegrim 9038]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market.

And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski.

 

And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

[snakehips 0]

These hoofs up the park by Bramble can only be sanctioned by Rodders imo.

 

And as to Milner trying to beat his man and get the cross in, what is the plan there? So Oba 'the leap' Martins or Keiron 'Toshack' Dyer can get a header in at goal??? Do me a favour

 

 

Martins has leaped like a salmon for a few hasn't he?

 

Yes, from what I have seen, the expression everyone uses of him leaping like a salmon is correct. However, from what I have seen, the leaping has been done around 20yds from goal in an attempt to......well someone else will have to tell me as I'm not convinced he, or anyone else, knows what the plan is there.

 

What I was referring to is the cross into the box, which Milner is attempting, that a classic British CF would have loved. A classic CF that would fight his CB opposition into getting his nut to the ball first. I just don't see Martins bullying a CB a la Woodgate or Pogatez (sp), or any other CB for that matter in or around the penalty spot.

[Fop 1]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market.

And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski.

 

And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

 

You're expecting 6 million (assuming it WAS there) to go a long way to get a left back, central defender (although not going for Campbell was a huge mistake) and another forward (which still leaves right back and midfield creativity woefully short even without much of an injury list).

 

The other issue is that we're in trouble with wages as it stands (which is worrying as we have a small squad anyway – not so very long ago NUFC had almost 50 professionals on the books), so it's not just signing fees (although obviously that too), but that we have to be able to afford to pay them as well. Which I must admit can be an issue with more established players, sometimes to the point where a fee (or even lack of) isn't the major financial consideration.

 

As I said reality is what is needed in a lot of peoples views.

[Isegrim 9038]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market.

And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski.

 

And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

 

You're expecting 6 million (assuming it WAS there) to go a long way to get a left back, central defender (although not going for Campbell was a huge mistake) and another forward (which still leaves right back and midfield creativity woefully short even without much of an injury list).

 

The other issue is that we're in trouble with wages as it stands (which is worrying as we have a small squad anyway – not so very long ago NUFC had almost 50 professionals on the books), so it's not just signing fees (although obviously that too), but that we have to be able to afford to pay them as well. Which I must admit can be an issue with more established players, sometimes to the point where a fee (or even lack of) isn't the major financial consideration.

 

As I said reality is what is needed in a lot of peoples views.

I have quite often pointed to the wage issue myself, especially that Newcastle can't afford having so many second rate players on huge wages, i.e. Carr, Babayaro etc. (I also listed Butt in the summer).

 

But the thing is that if you want depth into you squad you can't only buy established big names as Roeder is trying to do. Getting cover for 3-4 positions would have been totally possible with 10m to the disposal (Roeder himself admitted going for Huth, so the money must have been there, as well as for Vidkuka and with only Milner bringing money in). A balanced squad would have eased some of the self-made injury problems and put us in a far better position for fighting for a top 6 finish, something that was (is) the target nevertheless. So everything else is failure. That is realism in my opinion.

[Guest alex]

The more players he has at his disposal, the less sure Roeder is of how best to employ them.

Some of his more 'inspired' decisions have been borne out of necessity - Solano at right-back for example. Also, I doubt if Milner would have played much if everyone had been fit and he's been one of our best players. Ditto Nicky Butt.