Allardyce isn't in...yet

[Guest alex]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

[Toonpack 6871]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Allardyce has taken what should have been a yo-yo club and established it in the upper level of the Prem, which is as far realistically that it's resources will/would allow.

 

If he does the same to us and there is any relationship to resources and achievement then we should all end up happy.

 

At the end of the day I think he is probably the best we could get, he is nothing if not professional and that is something we have totally lacked.

[Guest alex]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

 

You never say anything Alex, ya git

[Fop 1]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

[Guest alex]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

 

You never say anything Alex, ya git

Is that your excuse for building a straw man?

[Fop 1]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

 

You never say anything Alex, ya git

Is that your excuse for building a straw man?

 

We like a nice straw man here (or a pasty, not that fussed), followed by a burning and leaping of the flames and hopefully a heretic or two to throw on the blaze!

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

 

You never say anything Alex, ya git

Is that your excuse for building a straw man?

 

Make hay while the sun shines, it's going to be a dark winter

[Guest alex]

Fantastic. So let's appoint anyone that was free.

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. Well done

 

So you agree that we replaced a shit manager with the winner of a diligent and comprehensive search of all available and temptable talent?

You'll be able to point to where I said that then.

 

You never say anything Alex, ya git

Is that your excuse for building a straw man?

 

We like a nice straw man here (or a pasty, not that fussed), followed by a burning and leaping of the flames and hopefully a heretic or two to throw on the blaze!

[Toonpack 6871]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

[Fop 1]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

Aye I hope he can do that here, but I dunno that it will be enough.

[David Kelly 1117]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

That's a big assumption that appears to made purely on the basis that you don't like him!

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

That's a big assumption that appears to made purely on the basis that you don't like him!

 

Observation and suppostition, not assupmtion

 

What's your theory then?

[Toonpack 6871]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

 

Bingo!!!!

 

A manager motivating players to consistently over achieve and perform. that'll make a change

[Happy Face 29]

He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence.

 

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though.

[Guest alex]

He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence.

 

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though.

For me, the biggest problem with Roeder's teams here is that we're not particularly good at anything, whether that be: defensively, in terms of playing good football, in terms of overall tactics, in terms of making tactical changes/substitutions to influence games, in terms of targetting the right sort of players, in terms of getting players in, in terms of looking like we have a clue at our set-pieces, ditto the oppositions' set pieces, in terms of being able to get the best out of those players at the club, etc. etc.

So, you can point out (correctly) that defensively we aren't too bad, but conceding less goals than teams like Bolton really does amount to a pyrrhic victory this season.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

 

Bingo!!!!

 

A manager motivating players to consistently over achieve and perform. that'll make a change

 

You think that ideology fits NUFC? plucky over-achievers? Do you think we were the underdogs against AZ Alkmaar? Is that why we couldn't beat them, because we weren't over-achieving?

Edited May 8, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Toonpack 6871]

He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence.

 

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though.

 

Take away the goals (9) Man U scored against them in two heavy defeats and I think you'll find game by game that's not the case.

[Isegrim 8875]

He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence.

 

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though.

Sure, the Newcastle's defensive problems are less down to the number of goals conceded but rather the way, they are conceded, i.e. individual mistakes aka 'doing a Bramble'.

 

And when looking at the figures you have also to take into accound that opposition teams still treat the likes of Bolton and Newcastle differently though. Despite grossly underperforming most of the bottom half teams see Newcastle still as a threat and play far more defensively than they do against other teams. That's a difference to Bolton who like to sit back themselves most of the times.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He had two transfer windows and a whole year on the training ground to work on the shortcomings in central defence.

 

Better defensive record than Allardyce's Hard working, organised, tactically sound Bolton though.

Sure, the Newcastle's defensive problems are less down to the number of goals conceded but rather the way, they are conceded, i.e. individual mistakes aka 'doing a Bramble'.

 

And when looking at the figures you have also to take into accound that opposition teams still treat the likes of Bolton and Newcastle differently though. Despite grossly underperforming most of the bottom half teams see Newcastle still as a threat and play far more defensively than they do against other teams. That's a difference to Bolton who like to sit back themselves most of the times.

 

Who was the first Newcastle manager to recognise Bramble was shit and try to do something about it?

[Guest alex]

Who said Bramble was shit? Is that how this works?

[Toonpack 6871]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

 

Bingo!!!!

 

A manager motivating players to consistently over achieve and perform. that'll make a change

 

You think that ideology fits NUFC? plucky over-achievers? Do you think we were the underdogs against AZ Alkmaar? Is that why we couldn't beat them, because we weren't over-achieving?

 

That's exactly NOT what I'm saying.

 

You have stated and I happen to agree, Allardyce found a way to get alledgedly so-so players to over-perform, if he can get our so called better players just to perform at their appropriate level then we should be in good shape.

 

Plucky over achievers is a red herring, fact is he consistently gets the most out of his players - (except when they play Man U!!).

[David Kelly 1117]

For me, one of the biggest indictments of Roeder was that when injuries dictated the team, we actually appeared to perform better than when the manager had his pick.

 

Aye that's true, but what worries me is that it is more indicative of the current team itself than failings of the manager.

 

There seem to be an awful lot whose head and heart are not at Newcastle or at least don't seem too fussed about winning.

 

That's one thing that impresses me with Allardyce, he seemed to collect many "older" players who could have been considered as being in the "looking for a last pay-day" bracket, yet they seemed to perform for him.

 

 

What kind of clubs did these players come from? Big clubs with big expectations. Perhap the key to their success is the fact Bolton were always the plucky over-achievers and Allardyce could use that to motviate them. I don't buy that he magically made them fit again, it's all mental. I doubt that mind-set will fit here.

That's a big assumption that appears to made purely on the basis that you don't like him!

 

Observation and suppostition, not assupmtion

 

What's your theory then?

 

I would say that he is able to motivate and coach players into performing to their capacity. I think the available facts support that. I think suggesting it has something to do with the players being at a smaller club (not always the case since he has got performances out of players brought in from smaller clubs or Bolton's youth team to perform as well) and away from the pressure they had been under is just an assumption. We have signed players from bigger clubs than ourselves and their performances haven't matched what they produced at the bigger clubs so I don't think that line of reasoning follows.