Allardyce isn't in...yet

[Renton 17822]

....and Nicos was in love with Rodent.

 

 

I don't like seeing my money wasted on paying off a year of his contract and 3 years of Allardyces when I think they are about evenly matched. It's not that I like Roeder any more, I've said if Allardyce had replaced Souness and the debate was now "Shall we get Roeder?" I'd be saying no to that too.

 

If either moves costs us nothing I'll be less against it, but still think it's optimistic to see him finish much higher than Roeder did last season.

 

How the fuck can you say that Slug Boy & Sam are evenly matched? Bolton are 7th we are 13th. We have "better" individual players but Slug Boy hasnt got the working as a team, he hasnt got the defence communicating, he hasnt got a plan B, or even a plan fucking A. We were in the driving seat for the match as AZ and I know what a team with Big Sam would have done in that situation!! But Slug boy went into it in his own fucked up way and we got SHAFTED!!

 

So how the fuck are we evenly matched?

 

Yes we have had bad injuries but slug boy fails to work with the tools he has because he is a mong!

 

 

I never said we're evenly matched with Bolton. I said Roeder is evenly matched with Allardyce.

 

It's not a matter of wrong or right, it's just an opinion that Allardyce could have done no better this season with the players Roeder had. He may have performed better in the transfer window, but we'll have to see who he brings in over summer to judge that better.

 

I've said it elsewhere, if Allardyce didn't have Anelka this year (like we never had Owen + many others) they'd currently be on 41 points.

 

You've actually been sad enough to work out where they'd be without his goals? Jesus wept.

 

Football doesn't work like that btw.

 

....and where would we have been without Martins (no first touch) goals.

What if Bolton had Martins and we had Anelka?

 

What if they had Given and we had Jaaskelainen?

[wykikitoon 16726]

 

 

They pushed Arsenal for the 4th CL spot right uptill the last few games. Some people have very short memories or even mamaries.

 

:

 

But some people seem to think he is shit

[Guest alex]

What if we had Allardyce and they had Roeder?

[wykikitoon 16726]

What if we had Allardyce and they had Roeder?

 

 

Now HF would support Bolton then

[Park Life 70]

What if we had Allardyce and they had Roeder?

 

Beat me to it.

[Happy Face 29]

He's been sad enough to work out how many points we'd have if we got points for cup games, so....

 

I did that because it takes 20 seconds to work out, even if I was very bored I wouldn’t arse myself to split it into league and cup because I’d have to go through the results myself. It also takes 20 seconds to work out what games Anelka won for Bolton.

 

Football doesn't work like that, but I thought it might be interesting to see, seeing as I believe Michael Owen would be worth more poionts to any team than Anelka.

[Park Life 70]

Nicos has scuttled back to his film theory bunker to cook up some kind of post Goddardian/ post structuralist counter strike involving the meshing of pro-zone and the mind of Mencia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love you baby.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Parky

[Guest alex]

He's been sad enough to work out how many points we'd have if we got points for cup games, so....

 

I did that because it takes 20 seconds to work out, even if I was very bored I wouldn’t arse myself to split it into league and cup because I’d have to go through the results myself. It also takes 20 seconds to work out what games Anelka won for Bolton.

 

Football doesn't work like that, but I thought it might be interesting to see, seeing as I believe Michael Owen would be worth more poionts to any team than Anelka.

It was a joke mate although I think it's more meaningful if it's league games only.

[Renton 17822]

He's been sad enough to work out how many points we'd have if we got points for cup games, so....

 

I did that because it takes 20 seconds to work out, even if I was very bored I wouldn’t arse myself to split it into league and cup because I’d have to go through the results myself. It also takes 20 seconds to work out what games Anelka won for Bolton.

 

Football doesn't work like that, but I thought it might be interesting to see, seeing as I believe Michael Owen would be worth more poionts to any team than Anelka.

 

It took me no time at all to think 42 points, 13th place.

[wykikitoon 16726]

He's been sad enough to work out how many points we'd have if we got points for cup games, so....

 

I did that because it takes 20 seconds to work out, even if I was very bored I wouldn’t arse myself to split it into league and cup because I’d have to go through the results myself. It also takes 20 seconds to work out what games Anelka won for Bolton.

 

Football doesn't work like that, but I thought it might be interesting to see, seeing as I believe Michael Owen would be worth more poionts to any team than Anelka.

 

It took me no time at all to think 42 points, 13th place.

 

 

Its only 5 or 6 places tho

[Guest alex]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

[Happy Face 29]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

[Guest alex]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

[Fop 1]

The only game being played is the lets pretend type, whereby we suspend all past knowledge and blame Roeder for the fact the NUFC defence has included Bramble this season.

It took until Alkmaar away for Roeder to work that one out. Portsmouth away and Bramble was a canny player again. Nice one Glenn.

 

If Allerdyce comes in quickly enough, I wouldn't be surprised to see him keep Bramble.

He might do. I'd have more confidence in him getting performances out of him that the previous two. Overall though it's only because we are so thin on the ground in that position that I would even consider hanging onto Bramble for another season or two.

 

If Robson couldn't I can't see Allardyce managing it, be nice to be proved wrong though, but it's just that it seems to be an inherent flaw in Bramble (possibly made worse by its inconsistency), and with the best of everything that is some thing that will be hard (maybe impossible) to get rid of.

[Baggio 0]

We all know how far Freddie casts his net when he's looking for a new manager, they have to have experience with the Premiership and are preferably British.

 

I think if we had pursued Houllier we could have got him, I also would have preferred Sven but I'm not sure he would have been able to do the overhaul behind the scenes that's needed, next on the list I'd have Allardyce who IMO was the best manager in the Premiership behind the top 4.

[Guest alex]

The only game being played is the lets pretend type, whereby we suspend all past knowledge and blame Roeder for the fact the NUFC defence has included Bramble this season.

It took until Alkmaar away for Roeder to work that one out. Portsmouth away and Bramble was a canny player again. Nice one Glenn.

 

If Allerdyce comes in quickly enough, I wouldn't be surprised to see him keep Bramble.

He might do. I'd have more confidence in him getting performances out of him that the previous two. Overall though it's only because we are so thin on the ground in that position that I would even consider hanging onto Bramble for another season or two.

 

If Robson couldn't I can't see Allardyce managing it, be nice to be proved wrong though, but it's just that it seems to be an inherent flaw in Bramble (possibly made worse by its inconsistency), and with the best of everything that is some thing that will be hard (maybe impossible) to get rid of.

Neither can I in all honesty.

[Isegrim 8875]

We all know how far Freddie casts his net when he's looking for a new manager, they have to have experience with the Premiership and are preferably British.

 

I think if we had pursued Houllier we could have got him, I also would have preferred Sven but I'm not sure he would have been able to do the overhaul behind the scenes that's needed, next on the list I'd have Allardyce who IMO was the best manager in the Premiership behind the top 4.

 

I agree (except of preferring Eriksson).

 

[Park Life 70]

We all know how far Freddie casts his net when he's looking for a new manager, they have to have experience with the Premiership and are preferably British.

 

I think if we had pursued Houllier we could have got him, I also would have preferred Sven but I'm not sure he would have been able to do the overhaul behind the scenes that's needed, next on the list I'd have Allardyce who IMO was the best manager in the Premiership behind the top 4.

 

I agree (except of preferring Eriksson).

 

 

Houllier is too meek would have lasted 5 mins in the pasty eating constest.

[ChezGiven 0]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

The battle of the uber-memories.

 

FWIW am very sympathetic to what HF is trying to say. And for people who say 'football doesnt work like that' then i have to disagree too. Players change games, like Martins out of the blue equaliser at spurs. We only went on to get the three points because of that goal, so i reckon you can look at it like that. What other variables are there like?

 

I do think Allardyce will be better but am not that excited about the next 2 seasons under him. If we get him.

[Isegrim 8875]

We all know how far Freddie casts his net when he's looking for a new manager, they have to have experience with the Premiership and are preferably British.

 

I think if we had pursued Houllier we could have got him, I also would have preferred Sven but I'm not sure he would have been able to do the overhaul behind the scenes that's needed, next on the list I'd have Allardyce who IMO was the best manager in the Premiership behind the top 4.

 

I agree (except of preferring Eriksson).

 

 

Houllier is too meek would have lasted 5 mins in the pasty eating constest.

And Eriksson wouldn't have lasted 5 mins without shagging the tea lady...

[Park Life 70]

We all know how far Freddie casts his net when he's looking for a new manager, they have to have experience with the Premiership and are preferably British.

 

I think if we had pursued Houllier we could have got him, I also would have preferred Sven but I'm not sure he would have been able to do the overhaul behind the scenes that's needed, next on the list I'd have Allardyce who IMO was the best manager in the Premiership behind the top 4.

 

I agree (except of preferring Eriksson).

 

 

Houllier is too meek would have lasted 5 mins in the pasty eating constest.

And Eriksson wouldn't have lasted 5 mins without shagging the tea lady...

 

 

 

I have a soft spot for the pesky Swede.

 

 

Serioulsy people have to understand it is as much about the relative merits of the new manager and also how they will interact with Fatty.

[Isegrim 8875]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

The battle of the uber-memories.

 

FWIW am very sympathetic to what HF is trying to say. And for people who say 'football doesnt work like that' then i have to disagree too. Players change games, like Martins out of the blue equaliser at spurs. We only went on to get the three points because of that goal, so i reckon you can look at it like that. What other variables are there like?

 

I do think Allardyce will be better but am not that excited about the next 2 seasons under him. If we get him.

You can't simply blank out one player though. If Bolton haven't had Anelka they would have played someone else, if Newcastle haven't had Martins they would have played someone else, too. Who knows what those players instead would have achieved? In the case of Martins someone else might have performed better during the Spurs game? Maybe he had performed better in those other games Martins totally went missing and won us results then? IMHO the whole "without the goals from Anelka/Martins this or that would have happened" is far too simplistic and as much speculation as everything else.

[Renton 17822]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

The battle of the uber-memories.

 

FWIW am very sympathetic to what HF is trying to say. And for people who say 'football doesnt work like that' then i have to disagree too. Players change games, like Martins out of the blue equaliser at spurs. We only went on to get the three points because of that goal, so i reckon you can look at it like that. What other variables are there like?

 

I do think Allardyce will be better but am not that excited about the next 2 seasons under him. If we get him.

You can't simply blank out one player though. If Bolton haven't had Anelka they would have played someone else, if Newcastle haven't had Martins they would have played someone else, too. Who knows what those players instead would have achieved? In the case of Martins someone else might have performed better during the Spurs game? Maybe he had performed better in those other games Martins totally went missing and won us results then? IMHO the whole "without the goals from Anelka/Martins this or that would have happened" is far too simplistic and as much speculation as everything else.

 

Exactly, does this really need to be explained though?

[Ketsbaia 0]

SSH and HF are both knackers

[ChezGiven 0]

I've always thought Allardyce was a top boss fwiw.

 

 

So what did you mean when you hoped he got the England job "for Newcastle's sake" at the time we were looking for a Souness replacement?

The battle of the uber-memories.

 

FWIW am very sympathetic to what HF is trying to say. And for people who say 'football doesnt work like that' then i have to disagree too. Players change games, like Martins out of the blue equaliser at spurs. We only went on to get the three points because of that goal, so i reckon you can look at it like that. What other variables are there like?

 

I do think Allardyce will be better but am not that excited about the next 2 seasons under him. If we get him.

You can't simply blank out one player though. If Bolton haven't had Anelka they would have played someone else, if Newcastle haven't had Martins they would have played someone else, too. Who knows what those players instead would have achieved? In the case of Martins someone else might have performed better during the Spurs game? Maybe he had performed better in those other games Martins totally went missing and won us results then? IMHO the whole "without the goals from Anelka/Martins this or that would have happened" is far too simplistic and as much speculation as everything else.

 

Exactly, does this really need to be explained though?

 

In the sense that people's opinions can be clarified yes. In the sense that Isegrim doesnt specify how Carrol would have potentially scored or Luque would have come on and turned the game, then yes, that would need to be explained too. If either of you want to push the logic you would both need to explain how there was someone else in the squad who could have turned that game to address the question of how we would have secured the points without Martins. All opinion of course.

 

So if it doesnt work like that, how do you price a player? How can you begin to evaluate the value of a player without a subjective judgement on how many goals they will score / keep out / set up and hence points on the board. Of course its not precise but those are the 'implicit' judgements being made when the market price is set.

 

The notion of a counter-factual argument shouldnt be lost on you Rents.