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luckyluke

Lest we forget

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Just 5 WWI veterans left apparently.

 

People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1. :calmdown:

 

Is there any need for this utter bollocks?

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Just 5 WWI veterans left apparently.

 

People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1. :calmdown:

 

Is there any need for this utter bollocks?

 

Yup, given things in recent years I'd say there is a very real need.

 

In fact I suspect you're proving my point.

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I won't denigrate this thread further by turning it into a slanging match, suffice to say what I'm watching right now is proof enough WWI is not forgotten.

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I won't denigrate this thread further by turning it into a slanging match, suffice to say what I'm watching right now is proof enough WWI is not forgotten.

 

You're the one trying to start a slanging match here, not me. :calmdown:

 

But watching Remembrance parades is not the same thing as remembering and knowing horror and lessons of events like WW1, which as I say are being forgotten even while still (just about) in living memory.

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Fop is the only one who feels the PAIN

 

Hardly. (is this officially a slanging match thread now?)

 

But there aren't that many that remember histories lessons, that much is show each and every day.

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I won't denigrate this thread further by turning it into a slanging match, suffice to say what I'm watching right now is proof enough WWI is not forgotten.

 

You're the one trying to start a slanging match here, not me. :calmdown:

 

But watching Remembrance parades is not the same thing as remembering and knowing horror and lessons of events like WW1, which as I say are being forgotten even while still (just about) in living memory.

 

Oh just fuck off.

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I won't denigrate this thread further by turning it into a slanging match, suffice to say what I'm watching right now is proof enough WWI is not forgotten.

 

You're the one trying to start a slanging match here, not me. :calmdown:

 

But watching Remembrance parades is not the same thing as remembering and knowing horror and lessons of events like WW1, which as I say are being forgotten even while still (just about) in living memory.

 

Oh just fuck off.

 

As I said you're the one starting a slanging match here, not me.

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But there aren't that many that remember histories lessons, that much is show each and every day.

OK, I bite. How?

 

And are you talking about the lessons of history in a broader sense, or the specific horrors of (e.g.) trench life in WWI? You seem to be addressing both so far.

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But there aren't that many that remember histories lessons, that much is show each and every day.

OK, I bite. How?

 

And are you talking about the lessons of history in a broader sense, or the specific horrors of (e.g.) trench life in WWI? You seem to be addressing both so far.

 

This is now an insult me thread (for whatever reason), I don't think discourse on that has any place here. :calmdown:

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But there aren't that many that remember histories lessons, that much is show each and every day.

OK, I bite. How?

 

And are you talking about the lessons of history in a broader sense, or the specific horrors of (e.g.) trench life in WWI? You seem to be addressing both so far.

 

This is now an insult me thread (for whatever reason), I don't think discourse on that has any place here. :unsure:

 

Huh? :calmdown:

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But there aren't that many that remember histories lessons, that much is show each and every day.

OK, I bite. How?

 

And are you talking about the lessons of history in a broader sense, or the specific horrors of (e.g.) trench life in WWI? You seem to be addressing both so far.

 

This is now an insult me thread (for whatever reason), I don't think discourse on that has any place here. :unsure:

 

Huh? :calmdown:

 

In that we are in full agreement.

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And I guess as this is the thread in question this belongs here too:

 

 

What I initially said on the remembrance day thread? How is that a wind up? I was basically agreeing with the sentiments, then RICO lost the plot for whatever reason.

 

Agreeing? The sentiment of the thread was we should never forget the horror of WW1, and you jumped in with some shite about how people already have that was completely out of step with the tone in there. You didn't even qualify people with a 'some' or 'young' or explain why you've come to this absurd conclusion. And you still haven't.

 

Yes agreeing with the sentiment that it should be remembered and respected, but that it shouldn't just be about date or just names on stone.

 

People remember the horror of more recent wars better (although arguable such things as WW2 are being changed and sanitised and forgotten in ways as we speak - in all manner of ways from Japanese text books to the next Hollywood remake), but the vast majority of British people don't really know about WW1. They may have watched the odd Discovery special or whatever but that's hardly the same thing. And the people that DO remember whether they fought themselves or just watched a generation being butchered are disappearing themselves...... and as they go so do their 1st hand accounts and memories.

 

Even going to look at the WW1 war graves still doesn't really capture the full horror and scale of such industrial slaughter, nor the massive tragic folly of the event in the first place.

 

It's completely pointless to remember those who have fallen in such things if you don't remember and understand to AVOID such things again, frankly that's more of an insult to their memories than most anything else.

 

But yes, clearly I was just "taking the piss". :icon_lol:

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But yes, clearly I was just "taking the piss". :icon_lol:

Only because everything you say comes with that trademark Fop taint of "I know all and everybody else is inherently flawed". That might not be your intention, but it's certainly how it reads, particularly when you provide no actual discussion of exactly how "people" - whoever "people" may be, in all their pigeonholable, homogeneous glory - are going about being so staggeringly ignorant.

 

Or, to put it another way: I don't believe anyone who's posted in this thread is unaware of the specifics of what went on in WWI, nor do I think they consider the rememberance process as mere lip service to some dates, names and numbers. And I'm pretty bemused that you seem to think otherwise.

 

So again, tell me, what do you do that makes you so much better informed than the rest of us? Maybe we can learn from your example.

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But yes, clearly I was just "taking the piss". :icon_lol:

Only because everything you say comes with that trademark Fop taint of "I know all and everybody else is inherently flawed".

 

What has that got to do with anything? That's just pathetic "justification" for NOT reading what I said and attacking me for what whomever wanted me to have said.

 

And frankly I can't really be arsed to get further into that, nor do I think this is the place for it.

 

That might not be your intention, but it's certainly how it reads, particularly when you provide no actual discussion of exactly how "people" - whoever "people" may be, in all their pigeonholable, homogeneous glory - are going about being so staggeringly ignorant.

 

Or, to put it another way: I don't believe anyone who's posted in this thread is unaware of the specifics of what went on in WWI, nor do I think they consider the rememberance process as mere lip service to some dates, names and numbers. And I'm pretty bemused that you seem to think otherwise.

 

I don't remember saying specific people here, I guess I must have missed that bit, perhaps I should have put "most people" or "many people" or whatever, but clearly the ISSUE here is with me not what I say (that's fairly irrelevant).

 

Now I'm not whining about that, that's up to them, but I'm afraid I'm just not going to be a sitting target for that kind of crap.

 

 

So again, tell me, what do you do that makes you so much better informed than the rest of us? Maybe we can learn from your example.

 

Whose to say I am?

 

I have spent a fair old bit of time immersed in WW1 stuff, from visits, to talking to two old soldiers myself a good few years ago now, as well as to family members (as two of my direct ancestors died pretty horrifically in that war).

 

But none of that is really the point, people forget it is human nature, I just tend to remind myself of what I don't know and understand as well as what I do.

 

Although clearly that is "taking the piss". :rolleyes:

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And I guess as this is the thread in question this belongs here too:

 

 

What I initially said on the remembrance day thread? How is that a wind up? I was basically agreeing with the sentiments, then RICO lost the plot for whatever reason.

 

Agreeing? The sentiment of the thread was we should never forget the horror of WW1, and you jumped in with some shite about how people already have that was completely out of step with the tone in there. You didn't even qualify people with a 'some' or 'young' or explain why you've come to this absurd conclusion. And you still haven't.

 

Yes agreeing with the sentiment that it should be remembered and respected, but that it shouldn't just be about date or just names on stone.

 

People remember the horror of more recent wars better (although arguable such things as WW2 are being changed and sanitised and forgotten in ways as we speak - in all manner of ways from Japanese text books to the next Hollywood remake), but the vast majority of British people don't really know about WW1. They may have watched the odd Discovery special or whatever but that's hardly the same thing. And the people that DO remember whether they fought themselves or just watched a generation being butchered are disappearing themselves...... and as they go so do their 1st hand accounts and memories.

 

Even going to look at the WW1 war graves still doesn't really capture the full horror and scale of such industrial slaughter, nor the massive tragic folly of the event in the first place.

 

It's completely pointless to remember those who have fallen in such things if you don't remember and understand to AVOID such things again, frankly that's more of an insult to their memories than most anything else.

 

But yes, clearly I was just "taking the piss". :icon_lol:

 

So your main qualm is with the passing of time and the fact more and more people have had no direct relation/contact who was alive during war time? Even though those people can do lots to find out about WW1 with the wealth of information available and on the national curriculum.

 

Also, you're saying if those of us in that position can't do any more than read or watch documentries to remind ourselves, we should just stop trying because we're insulting the people that were there? So basically in one more generation we should just forget about it because we're insulting them even trying to remember given that they're no longer here to remind us in person.

 

I don't know what would be worse tbh, if you're on a WUM or if you believe this.

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I can see what FOP's getting at to be fair although we should keep the insults and swearing out of this particular thread. There is very little focus in general on old people in this country and the sacrifice of those ordinary people who gave up so much is now relegated to a few minutes once a year.

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Guest alex
But yes, clearly I was just "taking the piss". :icon_lol:

Only because everything you say comes with that trademark Fop taint of "I know all and everybody else is inherently flawed". That might not be your intention, but it's certainly how it reads, particularly when you provide no actual discussion of exactly how "people" - whoever "people" may be, in all their pigeonholable, homogeneous glory - are going about being so staggeringly ignorant.

 

Or, to put it another way: I don't believe anyone who's posted in this thread is unaware of the specifics of what went on in WWI, nor do I think they consider the rememberance process as mere lip service to some dates, names and numbers. And I'm pretty bemused that you seem to think otherwise.

 

So again, tell me, what do you do that makes you so much better informed than the rest of us? Maybe we can learn from your example.

That's him told :rolleyes:

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