Limit foreign footballers say MPs

[Jimbo 133]

A group of MPs has called on football clubs to cut the number of foreign players in the English game.

 

They want the government and football authorities to discourage clubs from recruiting so many overseas players.

 

A Commons motion, led by Liberal Democrat MP for Colchester Bob Russell, has been signed by 23 MPs who believe British players are being held back.

 

However, Conservative MEP Chris Heaton-Harris said the idea would breach employment legislation.

 

National team

 

The MPs' Early Day Motion raises concern at the increase in the number of overseas footballers playing in the Premier League and the Football League.

 

 

It is perfectly reasonable to ask clubs to have at least three UK-born players on the park at any one time

Alan Simpson MP

 

It says in the Premier League's first year in 1992 there were 11 foreign players, compared to the current figure of 331 from 66 different countries.

 

They add that foreign players in the top flight outnumber British ones, with 60% among the Premier League's 20 clubs from overseas.

 

The MPs believe the rise in the number of foreign players is not in the long-term interests of football in England and is harming the prospects of the national team.

 

Talent pool

 

Nottingham South MP Alan Simpson, who has signed the motion, said clubs should have a minimum number of British players.

 

"It is perfectly reasonable to ask clubs to have at least three UK-born players on the park at any one time," he said.

 

But Mr Heaton-Harris said: "There is no way sport will get an exemption from employment law."

 

Football Association chief executive Brian Barwick said recently that he is worried about the pool of talent available to the England team.

 

But the Premier League has said it has invested a lot of resources in developing England stars of the future.

[Andrew 4229]

Why? the other 2 big leagues don't, they have limits on non eu players but not foreign in general and they do just fine

[JawD 31]

"It is perfectly reasonable to ask clubs to have at least three UK-born players on the park at any one time," he said.

 

No, no it isnt. What if one gets injured? Are you meant to only put another UK player on just to keep these happy? I agree with the sentiment, but its worthless unless the whole of football agreed. If anything, it should be in the squad or in the starting lineup. But, I just cant see it happening.

[Howay 12462]

"It is perfectly reasonable to ask clubs to have at least three UK-born players on the park at any one time," he said.

 

No, no it isnt. What if one gets injured? Are you meant to only put another UK player on just to keep these happy? I agree with the sentiment, but its worthless unless the whole of football agreed. If anything, it should be in the squad or in the starting lineup. But, I just cant see it happening.

We manage it with ease, even Manchester United and Chelsea do it's just teams like Arsenal that can't manage this.

[Andrew 4229]

"It is perfectly reasonable to ask clubs to have at least three UK-born players on the park at any one time," he said.

 

No, no it isnt. What if one gets injured? Are you meant to only put another UK player on just to keep these happy? I agree with the sentiment, but its worthless unless the whole of football agreed. If anything, it should be in the squad or in the starting lineup. But, I just cant see it happening.

We manage it with ease, even Manchester United and Chelsea do it's just teams like Arsenal that can't manage this.

 

choose not to manage this, simply beacuse there are better options elsewhere that they won't have to pay far far over the odds for

 

it's the leagues fault for over valuing english players not arsenals, as I recall they'e the only big 4 club to have made a profit on their transfer dealings in the last few years, what does that tell you?

[Howay 12462]

Arsenal spend big though fair enough they do get quite a few players who turn brilliant on the cheap like Fabregas, but then they go out and pay over the odds for players as well like Jose Antonio Reyes who cost in excess of £20million Hleb and Rosicky were expensive, Eduardo cost £15m ish, then when they do get a good young English player they rarely play such as Bentley and Walcott (to a certain extent).

Teams like Aston Villa have a lot of good English players that they have either brought through their system (Agbonlahor etc) or bought (Young etc), players such as Hleb cost just as much as Young and being honest they aren't better are they?

Perhaps putting a wage cap would help as Foreigners may decide to play on the continent allowing them to earn more, meaning more places for English/British youngsters and if they too decide to play abroad then that is also good for our national team.

As for saying the other 2 big leagues do fine, I'd agree but look at their players discounting AC and Inter Milan Italian players are the majority, the same goes with the Spanish league, except that Real Madrid and Barcelona also field many Spaniards, la liga is also mostly Spaniards.

The reason the premiership attracts more foreign players than the other 2 big leagues is it is a far richer league and wages are much higher our mid-table clubs pay out as much as the top 2 Spanish and Italian clubs in wages.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Barton7

[Andrew 4229]

Arsenal spend big though fair enough they do get quite a few players who turn brilliant on the cheap like Fabregas, but then they go out and pay over the odds for players as well like Jose Antonio Reyes who cost in excess of £20million Hleb and Rosicky were expensive, Eduardo cost £15m ish, then when they do get a good young English player they rarely play such as Bentley and Walcott (to a certain extent).

Teams like Aston Villa have a lot of good English players that they have either brought through their system (Agbonlahor etc) or bought (Young etc), players such as Hleb cost just as much as Young and being honest they aren't better are they?

Perhaps putting a wage cap would help as Foreigners may decide to play on the continent allowing them to earn more, meaning more places for English/British youngsters and if they too decide to play abroad then that is also good for our national team.

 

Hleb's not better than young?

 

the wage cap idea is stupid, all that will mean is that the league will gradually get worse as players don't come here as opposed to spain and italy, then we'll be less of a force in european football and our national team won't neccesarily get better

[Howay 12462]

Hleb's not better than young?

No

 

the wage cap idea is stupid, all that will mean is that the league will gradually get worse as players don't come here as opposed to spain and italy, then we'll be less of a force in european football and our national team won't neccesarily get better

Well the Italian and Spanish leagues are doing just fine paying out lower wages than we are you said so yourself.

[Zathras 234]

You cannot be too specific, but the methods of limiting foreign players in the squad or what not shouldn't be too difficult to manage, surely?

 

The dramatic improvement in the US player pool is directly related to avoiding the NASL "bring in the big foreign stars" model and limiting the foreign players on each team to (I think it's) six. It encourages teams to look for good domestic talent. Does it hurt the quality of the league? Definitely. A league where journeymen players are guys like Ronnie Eckelund and Tim Curtin is not going to be as good as one with Zat Knight and Matthew Etherington.

 

But in the long run, developing the domestic game is what's important. An MLS team from 1996 (the first season) would've had trouble competing with the likes of Preston and Colchester. Todays squads are limited by the size (18 active players at a time, IIRC) and a dilution given the league's recent expansion, but is MUCH more competative. Hell second division teams in the US regularly trounce Sunderland.

[Howay 12462]

You cannot be too specific, but the methods of limiting foreign players in the squad or what not shouldn't be too difficult to manage, surely?

 

The dramatic improvement in the US player pool is directly related to avoiding the NASL "bring in the big foreign stars" model and limiting the foreign players on each team to (I think it's) six. It encourages teams to look for good domestic talent. Does it hurt the quality of the league? Definitely. A league where journeymen players are guys like Ronnie Eckelund and Tim Curtin is not going to be as good as one with Zat Knight and Matthew Etherington.

 

But in the long run, developing the domestic game is what's important. An MLS team from 1996 (the first season) would've had trouble competing with the likes of Preston and Colchester. Todays squads are limited by the size (18 active players at a time, IIRC) and a dilution given the league's recent expansion, but is MUCH more competative. Hell second division teams in the US regularly trounce Sunderland.

What is the league below the MLS? I've heard about the US having a 'developmental league' or something where only American youth players play in it what's that about if it's true?

[Zathras 234]

You cannot be too specific, but the methods of limiting foreign players in the squad or what not shouldn't be too difficult to manage, surely?

 

The dramatic improvement in the US player pool is directly related to avoiding the NASL "bring in the big foreign stars" model and limiting the foreign players on each team to (I think it's) six. It encourages teams to look for good domestic talent. Does it hurt the quality of the league? Definitely. A league where journeymen players are guys like Ronnie Eckelund and Tim Curtin is not going to be as good as one with Zat Knight and Matthew Etherington.

 

But in the long run, developing the domestic game is what's important. An MLS team from 1996 (the first season) would've had trouble competing with the likes of Preston and Colchester. Todays squads are limited by the size (18 active players at a time, IIRC) and a dilution given the league's recent expansion, but is MUCH more competative. Hell second division teams in the US regularly trounce Sunderland.

What is the league below the MLS? I've heard about the US having a 'developmental league' or something where only American youth players play in it what's that about if it's true?

 

There is no promotion or relegation (teams have to 'buy in' to MLS) but there is a professional league one step below MLS which is the United Soccer Leagues Division 1. Below that is the USL Division 2. These are both professional (or semi-professional) leagues.

 

Below each of these is the Premier Development League or PDL. (Although many of the teams in this division are as good as USL-2 teams.) This is made up of players who are NOT professionally compensated. They need to remain 'amateur' players in order to maintain their eligibility to play in college. Mostly its a place where college players play in the summer. It can be very helpful to develop players and some teams bring in professionals to play for them to help the younger players (Juergen Klinsmann played in the PDL for a couple of years.)

 

There are other leagues below that, but they are pretty much entirely amateur. The biggest are the USASA (United States Adult Soccer Association) the NPSL (National Premier Soccer League.)

 

Then there's the MISL (Major indoor soccer league) which is basically glorified 5 a side.

[Howay 12462]

Thanks for explaining, it's certainly a different way of doing things but I guess it's working, I've always thought the draft system was a good idea with the poorest teams getting to pick first unless they trade with a higher up team helps even things out. The draft system wouldn't work over in Europe now though it would be too difficult and too hard to change to it.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Barton7

[Zathras 234]

Thanks for explaining, it's certainly a different way of doing things but I guess it's working, I've always thought the draft system was a good idea with the poorest teams getting to pick first unless they trade with a higher up team helps even things out. The draft system wouldn't work over in Europe now though it would be too difficult and too hard to change to it.

 

They're both working models and I think both work well in their environments. The byword for MLS right now is 'parity' and the draft system allows for that.

[Noelie 103]

I honestly believe that the influx of so many foreign players into English leagues is detrimental to the progress of English players as a whole, especially at National level.

Granted it may provide better viewing entertainment for spectators and perhaps be more economical for the clubs to bring in foreign players, but what does it do to benefit the growth and progess of our youth and sustain our national team.

When you look at the power-house nations such as Argentina, Brasil, you will see that the traffic of players is opposite to ours and there has to be a message there. Consider how many Argies and Brasilians are playing in Europe as opposed to how many Europeans are playing in South America. How many Englismen are playing abroad because they are good, and wanted?

Sure, other countries have foreign players in their midst but not like us. I have seen Chelsea and Arsenal field teams that did not have 1(one) British player among them. Notice I said British rather than English to make a point.

[Zathras 234]

I honestly believe that the influx of so many foreign players into English leagues is detrimental to the progress of English players as a whole, especially at National level.

Granted it may provide better viewing entertainment for spectators and perhaps be more economical for the clubs to bring in foreign players, but what does it do to benefit the growth and progess of our youth and sustain our national team.

When you look at the power-house nations such as Argentina, Brasil, you will see that the traffic of players is opposite to ours and there has to be a message there. Consider how many Argies and Brasilians are playing in Europe as opposed to how many Europeans are playing in South America. How many Englismen are playing abroad because they are good, and wanted?

Sure, other countries have foreign players in their midst but not like us. I have seen Chelsea and Arsenal field teams that did not have 1(one) British player among them. Notice I said British rather than English to make a point.

 

You take Argentina and Brazil as examples of countries where "the traffic of players is opposite to ours" but ignore others.

 

How about the USA? Sweden? Norway? Denmark? Japan? There are counterexamples to that point. It's not about where the 'traffic' goes; it's about where the development money is going. Clubs in England are incentivized to win by any means; this means that they will take the players that will help them NOW. The reason that MLS works to develop the American player is that the clubs have built-in incentives to develop American players. Even in the developmental arena English clubs are looking to bring in young French, Italian, or South American talents.

 

To be sure, the fact that talent is going TO England rather than OUT of England is a concern, but I think it's more a symptom of the poor development structure than a cause. Brazilian players leave Brazil because they'll make more money in Europe (or Japan.) English players will make more money playing in the English leagues than they would going to other leagues. It's a side-effect of the humongous financial growth of the Premier League. Money drives the beast and you have to figure out a way to incentivize (financially) the development of domestic players. That might be limiting the number of foreign players, providing FA 'subsidies' for salaries of domestic players or something else entirely. I don't profess to know the answer, I don't know how to manage the financial structure that is already in place.

[Andrew 4229]

the wage cap idea is stupid, all that will mean is that the league will gradually get worse as players don't come here as opposed to spain and italy, then we'll be less of a force in european football and our national team won't neccesarily get better

Well the Italian and Spanish leagues are doing just fine paying out lower wages than we are you said so yourself.

 

when exactly did i say that? i said they're doing fine allowing foreign players in their leagues

[bawan 0]

Racist Cunts

 

Edit: Should make a League for foreign players tbh

Edited February 4, 2008 by bawan

[Besty 4]

Racist Cunts

 

Edit: Should make a League for foreign players tbh

 

[Howay 12462]

the wage cap idea is stupid, all that will mean is that the league will gradually get worse as players don't come here as opposed to spain and italy, then we'll be less of a force in european football and our national team won't neccesarily get better

Well the Italian and Spanish leagues are doing just fine paying out lower wages than we are you said so yourself.

 

when exactly did i say that? i said they're doing fine allowing foreign players in their leagues

Thats what I was meaning you had said the "paying out lower wages" was my point sorry reading it back I hadn't written it right.

My overall point was that you had said the Italian and Spaniards were doing fine and I was pointing that they do this despite having much less money than our clubs, so they are fielding many of their homegrown players and at the same time competing Continentally and Internationally so having less money in which to entice foreign players is doing their national teams a lot of good.

[Guest alex]

The French League had (has?) a system that meant a set number of French U21 (two I think) had to be in your match day squad to try to bring through young French talent. It was brought in after failing to qualify for USA '94 meant they'd missed two consecutive World Cups.

[luckyluke 1]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of quotas are, MPs should have fuck all say in it.

[Happy Face 29]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of quotas are, MPs should have fuck all say in it.

 

I was just going to say, shame we can't bring in a few more talented foreign MPs on the cheap.

[Bombadil 0]

I'm more worried about the fact that basically every English player is criminally overrated. I'd rather we had a team full of foreigners that are as committed and talented as Arsenal's bunch than the 6 or 7 overrated British players that are in our starting XI every week, and have been for the past three or four dismal seasons.

[Rob W 0]

it's a pity more English players don't plqy overseas - we might learn sommat

 

and the EU will not allow any rules stopping Yuropean players from playing here so its totally pointless

[Fop 1]

it's a pity more English players don't plqy overseas - we might learn sommat

 

and the EU will not allow any rules stopping Yuropean players from playing here so its totally pointless

 

That'll probably never happen with the way British football is at the moment, the great talents that come though are snapped up by the money from British clubs, and the rest are not wanted abroad and/or are too "expensive" for what they are, nor allowed to develop as they might.

 

What's happening in the Premiership is basically the same as economic globalisation (over a similar period to the Premiership ironically); the problem with globalisation (as we have found, and will continue to find in the next 10-20 years, in more economic aspects) is that it is NOT a free ride forever. Eventually it ends and the consequences come calling.