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MPs Call for end to Happy Hour

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From BBC Webby

 

Why dont they put more pressure on

 

a.) people drinking sensibly or

b.) bar staff continuing to serve people who are shit faced?

 

MPs call for pub happy hours ban

 

Drinking: MPs want curbs on cheap alcohol

Pub happy hours should be banned and supermarkets stopped from selling alcohol at a loss in order to combat drink-fuelled disorder, MPs have said.

 

The Home Affairs select committee said reckless drinking was placing a heavy burden on police resources.

 

One possible solution for England and Wales, MPs said, would be legislation setting a minimum price on alcohol.

 

Their call comes in a report on challenges facing police forces in the 21st century.

 

Ministers said they would "look carefully" at the report's recommendations.

 

Police challenges

 

The report said police faced a host of pressures, including public expectations over minor crime, rapid population change, and the number of murder suspects released on bail.

 

But it added that evidence showed the biggest problem faced by police forces was violence and disorder caused by excessive drinking of cheap alcohol.

 

 

Labour MP Keith Vaz explains the select committee's findings

It said one force had reported that its shift patterns were dictated by the need to have enough officers available to deal with the fall-out of weekend bouts of drunken disorder.

 

Drink-fuelled crime meant that many forces could not meet the public's expectations of high-profile visible policing at other times, despite currently having record numbers in uniform, the report said.

 

Increased police powers to tackle drunkenness were not working and powers to review or revoke premises' alcohol licences were not being fully used, it said.

 

Almost half of all violent crime victims report that their attacker was under the influence of alcohol, according to official figures.

 

Other official figures on the cost of goods over time show alcohol has become much more affordable in the last three decades.

 

In Scotland, new licensing laws include powers to fix alcohol prices to stop cut-price promotions and happy hours, and ministers in Edinburgh say they might seek to set minimum prices for drink.

 

'Unhappy communities'

 

Keith Vaz, chairman of the committee, said retailers must end a "pile it high, sell it cheap" culture around drink.

 

 

Anyone caught peeing in the streets after one too many drinks on the town will be given a choice: either face arrest for being drunk and disorderly, or take a mop and bucket and clean up your own mess

 

 

 

He accused supermarkets of flouting the spirit of a voluntary code on alcohol sales.

 

"We cannot have, on one hand, a world of alcohol promotions for profit that fuels surges of crime and disorder and, on the other, the police diverting all their resources to cope with it," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

 

"At the moment you have a situation where so much of police time is taken up dealing with alcohol related crime.

 

"Happy hours lead to unhappy communities. Loss leaders in supermarkets cause real misery to city centres on a Saturday night."

 

The British Beer & Pub Association (BBPA) said the industry acted against "dodgy promotions" but was prevented from going still further because of competition law.

 

Spokesman Mark Hastings said: "In contrast, the supermarkets have done nothing but increase their extreme discounting offers.

 

"We welcome the committee's call for a ban on loss leaders when it comes to the sale of alcohol.

 

 

Richard Dodd from the British Retail Consortium and Don Shenker from Alcohol Concern

"There has been broad and growing concern over the role played by supermarkets when it comes to loss leading promotions, and their role in fuelling excessive drinking. It is time this practice ended."

 

Richard Dodd, from the British Retail Consortium, told BBC Breakfast that supermarkets were being unfairly demonised.

 

"Supermarkets believe in responsible drinking too, and they do an enormous amount to achieve that, in terms of know-your-limits unit labelling and preventing underage purchases of alcohol, but there's an awful lot of nonsense talked about this idea of below-cost selling.

 

"Because, if you just stop and think about it for a minute, no business could survive - let alone thrive - if it was routinely selling large amounts of product at less than it was actually paying for it."

 

But Don Shenker, chief executive of Alcohol Concern, said the sale of cheap alcohol in supermarkets was a real problem.

 

"By the time [young people have] gone out, they're completely drunk, they're much more at risk of having an accident, of being a victim of a crime and that's causing around £7bn worth of cost to the police."

 

The report said MPs remained sceptical about whether recently introduced Alcohol Disorder Zones could work.

 

These force pubs and clubs to contribute towards the costs of policing drink-related crime.

 

HAVE YOUR SAY Do not penalise everyone who enjoys a sensible drink just because the sentencing for drunken louts is pathetic and there is no deterrent

Phil, North Wales

Send us your commentsA Home Office spokesman said: "We know the police and the public remain concerned about alcohol-related disorder.

 

"We have given the police, licensing authorities and trading standards officers a range of tough powers to tackle alcohol-related disorder, including on-the-spot fines, confiscating alcohol in public places and closing down premises that flout the law.

 

"Alongside this, the Department of Health has commissioned an independent review on the effects of alcohol price, promotion, consumption and harm which will be published shortly."

 

'Expensive disaster'

 

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "[The report] is a shocking indictment of Labour's reckless approach to extended licensing and the top-down target-driven approach, which has resulted in perverse outcomes."

 

He said the Conservatives would reverse Labour's approach to 24-hour drinking, replacing it with "appropriate application at local discretion".

 

"We would ensure that laws passed to deal with alcohol-fuelled disorder are actually enforced - and take robust action to prevent loss-leader sales targeted at the young."

 

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "This report is right to highlight how mistaken the government has been to try to run policing through Whitehall targets, which have proved an expensive disaster."

 

Paul McKeever of the Police Federation of England and Wales said the report recognised many challenges posed for police by "binding red tape and targets".

 

He said he hoped the Home Office would use it as a wider base for review and reform than recently attempted in the Policing Green Paper.

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From BBC Webby

 

Why dont they put more pressure on

 

a.) people drinking sensibly or

b.) bar staff continuing to serve people who are shit faced?

 

MPs call for pub happy hours ban

 

Drinking: MPs want curbs on cheap alcohol

Pub happy hours should be banned and supermarkets stopped from selling alcohol at a loss in order to combat drink-fuelled disorder, MPs have said.

 

The Home Affairs select committee said reckless drinking was placing a heavy burden on police resources.

 

One possible solution for England and Wales, MPs said, would be legislation setting a minimum price on alcohol.

 

Their call comes in a report on challenges facing police forces in the 21st century.

 

Ministers said they would "look carefully" at the report's recommendations.

 

Police challenges

 

The report said police faced a host of pressures, including public expectations over minor crime, rapid population change, and the number of murder suspects released on bail.

 

But it added that evidence showed the biggest problem faced by police forces was violence and disorder caused by excessive drinking of cheap alcohol.

 

 

Labour MP Keith Vaz explains the select committee's findings

It said one force had reported that its shift patterns were dictated by the need to have enough officers available to deal with the fall-out of weekend bouts of drunken disorder.

 

Drink-fuelled crime meant that many forces could not meet the public's expectations of high-profile visible policing at other times, despite currently having record numbers in uniform, the report said.

 

Increased police powers to tackle drunkenness were not working and powers to review or revoke premises' alcohol licences were not being fully used, it said.

 

Almost half of all violent crime victims report that their attacker was under the influence of alcohol, according to official figures.

 

Other official figures on the cost of goods over time show alcohol has become much more affordable in the last three decades.

 

In Scotland, new licensing laws include powers to fix alcohol prices to stop cut-price promotions and happy hours, and ministers in Edinburgh say they might seek to set minimum prices for drink.

 

'Unhappy communities'

 

Keith Vaz, chairman of the committee, said retailers must end a "pile it high, sell it cheap" culture around drink.

 

 

Anyone caught peeing in the streets after one too many drinks on the town will be given a choice: either face arrest for being drunk and disorderly, or take a mop and bucket and clean up your own mess

 

 

 

He accused supermarkets of flouting the spirit of a voluntary code on alcohol sales.

 

"We cannot have, on one hand, a world of alcohol promotions for profit that fuels surges of crime and disorder and, on the other, the police diverting all their resources to cope with it," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

 

"At the moment you have a situation where so much of police time is taken up dealing with alcohol related crime.

 

"Happy hours lead to unhappy communities. Loss leaders in supermarkets cause real misery to city centres on a Saturday night."

 

The British Beer & Pub Association (BBPA) said the industry acted against "dodgy promotions" but was prevented from going still further because of competition law.

 

Spokesman Mark Hastings said: "In contrast, the supermarkets have done nothing but increase their extreme discounting offers.

 

"We welcome the committee's call for a ban on loss leaders when it comes to the sale of alcohol.

 

 

Richard Dodd from the British Retail Consortium and Don Shenker from Alcohol Concern

"There has been broad and growing concern over the role played by supermarkets when it comes to loss leading promotions, and their role in fuelling excessive drinking. It is time this practice ended."

 

Richard Dodd, from the British Retail Consortium, told BBC Breakfast that supermarkets were being unfairly demonised.

 

"Supermarkets believe in responsible drinking too, and they do an enormous amount to achieve that, in terms of know-your-limits unit labelling and preventing underage purchases of alcohol, but there's an awful lot of nonsense talked about this idea of below-cost selling.

 

"Because, if you just stop and think about it for a minute, no business could survive - let alone thrive - if it was routinely selling large amounts of product at less than it was actually paying for it."

 

But Don Shenker, chief executive of Alcohol Concern, said the sale of cheap alcohol in supermarkets was a real problem.

 

"By the time [young people have] gone out, they're completely drunk, they're much more at risk of having an accident, of being a victim of a crime and that's causing around £7bn worth of cost to the police."

 

The report said MPs remained sceptical about whether recently introduced Alcohol Disorder Zones could work.

 

These force pubs and clubs to contribute towards the costs of policing drink-related crime.

 

HAVE YOUR SAY Do not penalise everyone who enjoys a sensible drink just because the sentencing for drunken louts is pathetic and there is no deterrent

Phil, North Wales

Send us your commentsA Home Office spokesman said: "We know the police and the public remain concerned about alcohol-related disorder.

 

"We have given the police, licensing authorities and trading standards officers a range of tough powers to tackle alcohol-related disorder, including on-the-spot fines, confiscating alcohol in public places and closing down premises that flout the law.

 

"Alongside this, the Department of Health has commissioned an independent review on the effects of alcohol price, promotion, consumption and harm which will be published shortly."

 

'Expensive disaster'

 

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "[The report] is a shocking indictment of Labour's reckless approach to extended licensing and the top-down target-driven approach, which has resulted in perverse outcomes."

 

He said the Conservatives would reverse Labour's approach to 24-hour drinking, replacing it with "appropriate application at local discretion".

 

"We would ensure that laws passed to deal with alcohol-fuelled disorder are actually enforced - and take robust action to prevent loss-leader sales targeted at the young."

 

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "This report is right to highlight how mistaken the government has been to try to run policing through Whitehall targets, which have proved an expensive disaster."

 

Paul McKeever of the Police Federation of England and Wales said the report recognised many challenges posed for police by "binding red tape and targets".

 

He said he hoped the Home Office would use it as a wider base for review and reform than recently attempted in the Policing Green Paper.

 

24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

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24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

 

 

The things that would make a difference are little things like....... prosecuting more than 6 (yes six) individuals per year for selling alcohol to under-age people, in the whole of England and Wales.

 

 

But instead of, I don't know, say prosecuting a few more people (maybe 10 more a year, or maybe say all of the 1000's of fuckers) that sell alcohol to under-age drinkers the only reasonable solution is to TAX EVERYTHING. :(

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Bar staff aren't supposed to sell alcohol to someone who is 'shitfaced' under the liscensing law anyway.

 

This 'know your limit' labelling does absolutely fuck all. ;)

But bar staff tend to be under orders from their gaffa who in my experience usually says "yeah go on he is ok"

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Guest alex

At a time when virtually everything is going up (especially basics) alcohol is ridiculously cheap in shops now. It's cheaper in actual terms (rather than just real terms) than it was about 15+ years ago. Not just cases of lager either. You can get a bottle of vodka for about £7. Fair enough it's probably rank but if you're like 2J and you're going to flavour it with Skittles that won't bother you anyway.

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At a time when virtually everything is going up (especially basics) alcohol is ridiculously cheap in shops now. It's cheaper in actual terms (rather than just real terms) than it was about 15+ years ago. Not just cases of lager either. You can get a bottle of vodka for about £7. Fair enough it's probably rank but if you're like 2J and you're going to flavour it with Skittles that won't bother you anyway.

 

 

But it's still expensive compared to most anywhere else.

 

 

Like I said whilst putting alco-pops up to £10 a bottle might reduce under-age drinking, actually prosecuting more than 6 people (in the whole on England and Wales) a year for selling alcohol to under-age people would certainly reduce the issue (there must be 1000's of shops doing it).

 

 

Frankly another issue is it would take years for social change to filter though anyway (to a more European drinking culture), as we've been a society for years (since WW1 at least) where booze has been something you take when you get (and afford) it. Simple going back to the old way (especially when the Government wants tax) is no real answer.

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24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

 

 

The things that would make a difference are little things like....... prosecuting more than 6 (yes six) individuals per year for selling alcohol to under-age people, in the whole of England and Wales.

 

 

But instead of, I don't know, say prosecuting a few more people (maybe 10 more a year, or maybe say all of the 1000's of fuckers) that sell alcohol to under-age drinkers the only reasonable solution is to TAX EVERYTHING. ;)

 

Tax on drink is a pittance compared to bines.

 

80% of each packet of 20 cigarettes is duty, or £4.03 of the cover price of £5.23.

 

30% of each pint of lager is duty, or £1.60 of the price of a £5 round.

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24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

 

 

The things that would make a difference are little things like....... prosecuting more than 6 (yes six) individuals per year for selling alcohol to under-age people, in the whole of England and Wales.

 

 

But instead of, I don't know, say prosecuting a few more people (maybe 10 more a year, or maybe say all of the 1000's of fuckers) that sell alcohol to under-age drinkers the only reasonable solution is to TAX EVERYTHING. :icon_lol:

 

Tax on drink is a pittance compared to bines.

 

80% of each packet of 20 cigarettes is duty, or £4.03 of the cover price of £5.23.

 

30% of each pint of lager is duty, or £1.60 of the price of a £5 round.

 

 

That's still not the point though.

 

The point is that's is still vastly cheaper elsewhere (without the same issues) and that it's better to actually ENFORCE THE LAW ;) (as opposed to just persecuting 6 per year in the whole of England and Wales) instead of trying to tax people into submission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although you could be onto something, maybe if you were saddled with £1,000,000's worth of debt for murdering someone it'd be better than the piffling old fashion manner of a trial and few years in prison. :D

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Bar staff aren't supposed to sell alcohol to someone who is 'shitfaced' under the liscensing law anyway.

 

This 'know your limit' labelling does absolutely fuck all. ;)

But bar staff tend to be under orders from their gaffa who in my experience usually says "yeah go on he is ok"

 

If they get caught saying that, they'll lose their license.

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24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

 

 

The things that would make a difference are little things like....... prosecuting more than 6 (yes six) individuals per year for selling alcohol to under-age people, in the whole of England and Wales.

 

 

But instead of, I don't know, say prosecuting a few more people (maybe 10 more a year, or maybe say all of the 1000's of fuckers) that sell alcohol to under-age drinkers the only reasonable solution is to TAX EVERYTHING. :icon_lol:

 

Tax on drink is a pittance compared to bines.

 

80% of each packet of 20 cigarettes is duty, or £4.03 of the cover price of £5.23.

 

30% of each pint of lager is duty, or £1.60 of the price of a £5 round.

 

 

That's still not the point though.

 

The point is that's is still vastly cheaper elsewhere (without the same issues) and that it's better to actually ENFORCE THE LAW ;) (as opposed to just persecuting 6 per year in the whole of England and Wales) instead of trying to tax people into submission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although you could be onto something, maybe if you were saddled with £1,000,000's worth of debt for murdering someone it'd be better than the piffling old fashion manner of a trial and few years in prison. :D

 

Well the point of my post wasn't to join your debate, more of an aside concerning the persecution of smokers opposed to the endorsement of drinkers.

 

On your point though, I think you're forgetting that it's a crime usually punished by a fine rather than a custodial sentence. It's not like only 6 people have been done. It'll be a while before we find out exactly how many though...

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2008-10-16a.226025.h

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24hr drinking makes little or no difference to be honest. People will get fucked regardless of when places are open. Its an education/cluture/lifestyle thing.

 

 

The things that would make a difference are little things like....... prosecuting more than 6 (yes six) individuals per year for selling alcohol to under-age people, in the whole of England and Wales.

 

 

But instead of, I don't know, say prosecuting a few more people (maybe 10 more a year, or maybe say all of the 1000's of fuckers) that sell alcohol to under-age drinkers the only reasonable solution is to TAX EVERYTHING. :icon_lol:

 

Tax on drink is a pittance compared to bines.

 

80% of each packet of 20 cigarettes is duty, or £4.03 of the cover price of £5.23.

 

30% of each pint of lager is duty, or £1.60 of the price of a £5 round.

 

 

That's still not the point though.

 

The point is that's is still vastly cheaper elsewhere (without the same issues) and that it's better to actually ENFORCE THE LAW ;) (as opposed to just persecuting 6 per year in the whole of England and Wales) instead of trying to tax people into submission.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although you could be onto something, maybe if you were saddled with £1,000,000's worth of debt for murdering someone it'd be better than the piffling old fashion manner of a trial and few years in prison. :D

 

Well the point of my post wasn't to join your debate, more of an aside concerning the persecution of smokers opposed to the endorsement of drinkers.

 

On your point though, I think you're forgetting that it's a crime usually punished by a fine rather than a custodial sentence. It's not like only 6 people have been done. It'll be a while before we find out exactly how many though...

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2008-10-16a.226025.h

 

Only 6 have been prosecuted (not given custodial sentences, prosecuted) per year, undoubtedly it is at the end of a long chain of warning and threats and no judiciary fines and such..... but then that would (again) be the point.

 

 

 

I completely agree with it.

 

I just hope they impose it on themselves too in the House of Commons Bar.

 

That will never happen, like voting themselves free of the Freedom of Information act (and did they manage to get around the smoking ban in the end?), plus they'd have to double or tripe tax it to bring it to general prices.

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Why is it that in this country so many people can't just enjoy a social drink, but have to drink until they can't drink anymore/pass out/vomit/have a fight?

 

The head numbing pain of modern life?

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Why is it that in this country so many people can't just enjoy a social drink, but have to drink until they can't drink anymore/pass out/vomit/have a fight?

 

The head numbing pain of modern life?

 

Modern life is a lot easier than life in the past in my uninformed opinion. It's just that people can afford more alcohol and have less self-control.

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At a time when virtually everything is going up (especially basics) alcohol is ridiculously cheap in shops now. It's cheaper in actual terms (rather than just real terms) than it was about 15+ years ago. Not just cases of lager either. You can get a bottle of vodka for about £7. Fair enough it's probably rank but if you're like 2J and you're going to flavour it with Skittles that won't bother you anyway.

;)

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If they prosecuted a few bars for serving the rat arsed it would soon smarten the place up

 

but really, until getting hammered becomes unacceptable socially it'll happen somewhere

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If they prosecuted a few bars for serving the rat arsed it would soon smarten the place up

 

but really, until getting hammered becomes unacceptable socially it'll happen somewhere

 

too many kids sitting in streets drinking beer bought cheaply from supermarkets ........

 

contributing massively to the lingering death of the pub trade..........

 

pubs are for drinking, not the streets with cans of beer from Morrisons

 

stop that and make people who want to have a drink go to the pub

 

This is where it starts and ends, and where it has gone wrong

 

Of course, the MP's have their own cheap bar, and an exception to the anti-smoking law to go with it.

 

Hypocrites.

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As I see it, there are two problems- the Northern Europe culture of getting blitzed,and the strength of the alcohol being sold.

In France for example,it has had virtually 24 hr opening for years, yet it is a serious social faux-pas to get 'blitzed'. fine to drink steadily over the course of a day, but if you start to get wobbly, it's not seen as a point of weakness to stop drinking alcohol and hit the soft drinks.

The general strength of beers seems to have gone up, 5% being the standard, whereas when I started going to boozers, 4-4.2% seemed the norm. I know firms are bringing out lower strength versions of popular lagers, but the fact that they're advertising them as such imo means the people who SHOULD be drinking them never will-" ownly for puffs that lite shite man"

Banning supermarkets from selling beers as loss leaders will do nowt- just start up the Calais Run black market again. ;)

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As I see it, there are two problems- the Northern Europe culture of getting blitzed,and the strength of the alcohol being sold.

In France for example,it has had virtually 24 hr opening for years, yet it is a serious social faux-pas to get 'blitzed'. fine to drink steadily over the course of a day, but if you start to get wobbly, it's not seen as a point of weakness to stop drinking alcohol and hit the soft drinks.

The general strength of beers seems to have gone up, 5% being the standard, whereas when I started going to boozers, 4-4.2% seemed the norm. I know firms are bringing out lower strength versions of popular lagers, but the fact that they're advertising them as such imo means the people who SHOULD be drinking them never will-" ownly for puffs that lite shite man"

Banning supermarkets from selling beers as loss leaders will do nowt- just start up the Calais Run black market again. ;)

 

 

That's another issue.

 

When Bliar came to power one of the many, many, many promises he made that he never kept was to reduce the price of soft drinks in pubs.

 

What actually happened was the kept them as their biggest profit earner and in many places a pint of Coke will be as much as a pint of Guinness.

 

This not only puts off drivers (and encourages drink driving), but it put of drinkers that might have had a soft drink in-between alcoholic drinks too. The irony is that the mark up on pub soft drinks is so high they could 1/2 the price and probably make up much of the lost profit on extra sales.

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Didn't realise Tony was MD of Schweppes at the time he was PM. :icon_lol:

I think God told him not to do it..... or maybe it was Santa (who owns Coca cola). ;)

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What actually happened was the kept them as their biggest profit earner and in many places a pint of Coke will be as much as a pint of Guinness.

Mind you, that's true in Forrun as well, so it still comes back to our drinking culture.

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