Meenzer 14136 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The main problem with Rubens is that he's never been able to bridge that gap between a good - maybe very good - racing driver and someone who's truly world class. Not for the first time, he had the opportunity to put his foot down and really make an impression today, and he didn't. (OK, that'd have made the subsequent pit stop fuck-up even more galling, but still.) Just like Coulthard over the last few seasons, he's getting on a bit and can't accept that he's never quite going to make the grade. And now he's pretty much talked his way out of his current drive. Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Rubens has let the ghost of team orders past catch up with him. No-one conspired against him today, there was a genuine problem with the fuel rig and it's pretty evident that, had they not had to switch to the reserve rig, they'd have switched him to a 2-stop strategy. The reason Jenson jumped him at the end was because he nailed it in the laps between Rubens and himself coming in. Not the team's fault, just one of them things. As for their strategy, sadly I don't think they had much option but to run 3 stops. They couldn't manage their tyres in the colder conditions and needed new rubber more regularly. Look how quick the last set grained for both drivers - had that been a 2 stop strategy, they'd have finished way down the field - it was damage limitation time and given that, 5th and 6th wasn't that bad - probably lost one more place than they should have. Hungary will suit them, Spa will suit Red Bull, Monza depends on the weather but all the rest should be Brawn favourable circuits. Rubens however has talked himself out of the team for 2010. Anyone who watched the F1 Forum after the race by pressing the red button would have seen Anthony Davidson smiling very wryly following that interview. He's currently the test driver for Brawn.... BTW Stevie, 'The Chain' by Fleetwood Mac is as it's always been. Sure the BBC have overlaid it with effects but the underlying tune remains unaffected. Aye they have listen to the bass, that's what I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The main problem with Rubens is that he's never been able to bridge that gap between a good - maybe very good - racing driver and someone who's truly world class. Not for the first time, he had the opportunity to put his foot down and really make an impression today, and he didn't. (OK, that'd have made the subsequent pit stop fuck-up even more galling, but still.) Just like Coulthard over the last few seasons, he's getting on a bit and can't accept that he's never quite going to make the grade. And now he's pretty much talked his way out of his current drive. Good work. One of the guys I work with used to manage the Daytona Karting Centre in Milton Keynes. Regularly they had F1 drivers turning up to take part and quite often Rubens would turn up with his mates from Brazil. Steve reckons that of all the F1 drivers he's seen race in karts, Barrichello is the most insane and most competitive. Being the F1 driver, not surprisingly he creamed all of his mates and won by a country mile. But if one of them makes a bad decision when he was coming through to lap them for the umpteenth time, Rubens would 'lose it'. Apparently a very, very, very bad loser - something I think we saw evidence of yesterday. He was driving the car that was least suited to the track / conditions and he came home sixth. That's a hell of an achievement really. He's pissed because the one person driving the same machinery as him beat him for the 8th time in 9 races this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14136 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Bit strange that someone so competitive was satisfied with playing second fiddle to Schumi for so many years, then. I guess even he knew he wasn't in the same league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Bit strange that someone so competitive was satisfied with playing second fiddle to Schumi for so many years, then. I guess even he knew he wasn't in the same league. Do you not remember when he signed for them 10 years ago? Ridiculed by the press for taking over from Irvine as Schumacher's 'lapdog', Rubens emphatically denied it and stated he had it in his contract that he'd be able to race Michael... Yes mate, like fuck you could.... I honestly think he fell into the same trap as most of Schumacher's other team-mates over the years - foolishly believed that their talent alone would should that they were a match for him. MS was a master of sorting it all out before either team-mate got anywhere near the car. Herbert in particular was frustrated in '95 as he got absolutely no testing time with the team. Every race they went to he had to adopt Schumacher's setup as he never had time to sort his own out and following his accident, Johnny needed a pretty unique setup in an F1 car. It makes his 2 victories that season even more incredible. Massa aside, the biggest challenge Michael had as a team-mate was a certain Englishman who gave him a serious run for his money back in his first full season in the sport. Wonder what happened to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Massa aside, the biggest challenge Michael had as a team-mate was a certain Englishman who gave him a serious run for his money back in his first full season in the sport. Wonder what happened to him? I still think it would've been good if Irvine had won the championship the year Schumi broke his leg. I've never really rated Barrichello, he's a good number two driver but not a number one. I suppose his set-up and development experience is worth something but I'd rather have a young charger as a number two if I was running a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Massa aside, the biggest challenge Michael had as a team-mate was a certain Englishman who gave him a serious run for his money back in his first full season in the sport. Wonder what happened to him? I still think it would've been good if Irvine had won the championship the year Schumi broke his leg. I've never really rated Barrichello, he's a good number two driver but not a number one. I suppose his set-up and development experience is worth something but I'd rather have a young charger as a number two if I was running a team. I know you'll call me cynical, but I don't think Irvine was 'allowed' to win the WDC that year. The pace he had over the McLarens was unreal right up until the final race of the season in Japan - then he was nowhere on a circuit that Ferrari were awesome at in all years around '99. When he joined Ferrari, Schumacher's remit was to deliver the team's first WDC since Scheckter. For his 'also-ran' team mate to do it instead would have been a PR disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Max confirms what we've known for a long time..... he really is a muppet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Massa aside, the biggest challenge Michael had as a team-mate was a certain Englishman who gave him a serious run for his money back in his first full season in the sport. Wonder what happened to him? I still think it would've been good if Irvine had won the championship the year Schumi broke his leg. I've never really rated Barrichello, he's a good number two driver but not a number one. I suppose his set-up and development experience is worth something but I'd rather have a young charger as a number two if I was running a team. I know you'll call me cynical, but I don't think Irvine was 'allowed' to win the WDC that year. The pace he had over the McLarens was unreal right up until the final race of the season in Japan - then he was nowhere on a circuit that Ferrari were awesome at in all years around '99. When he joined Ferrari, Schumacher's remit was to deliver the team's first WDC since Scheckter. For his 'also-ran' team mate to do it instead would have been a PR disaster. I can't believe that Ferrari would throw away a potential world championship for the sake of PR. Even if they did only bring three tyres out for one of his pit-stops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Massa aside, the biggest challenge Michael had as a team-mate was a certain Englishman who gave him a serious run for his money back in his first full season in the sport. Wonder what happened to him? I still think it would've been good if Irvine had won the championship the year Schumi broke his leg. I've never really rated Barrichello, he's a good number two driver but not a number one. I suppose his set-up and development experience is worth something but I'd rather have a young charger as a number two if I was running a team. I know you'll call me cynical, but I don't think Irvine was 'allowed' to win the WDC that year. The pace he had over the McLarens was unreal right up until the final race of the season in Japan - then he was nowhere on a circuit that Ferrari were awesome at in all years around '99. When he joined Ferrari, Schumacher's remit was to deliver the team's first WDC since Scheckter. For his 'also-ran' team mate to do it instead would have been a PR disaster. I can't believe that Ferrari would throw away a potential world championship for the sake of PR. Even if they did only bring three tyres out for one of his pit-stops Hmm I'm not convinced. I'm also not convinced it wasn't in the contract either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Henry Surtees, son of former F1 & Motorcycle world champion John Surtees has been killed after a crash during an Formula 2 race at Brands Hatch today. One of the other drivers crashed and lost a wheel, the wheel bounced across the track and landed on Surtees' head. This clip shows the incident and at first glance it seems innocuous but sadly was enough to cause fatal injuries. RIP young fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) RIP It's really easy to forget nowadays with all the advances that have been made in safety that motor racing is still a very dangerous sport. Edited July 19, 2009 by Ketsbaia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 RIP It's really easy to forget nowadays with all the advances that have been made in safety that motor racing is still a very dangerous sport. Indeed. This guy's death is as freaky as Senna's. Had the wheel gone anywhere else, he'd still be alive now. Truly tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonraider 0 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 RIP It's really easy to forget nowadays with all the advances that have been made in safety that motor racing is still a very dangerous sport. RIP. How awful. I have seen many crashes over the years at various tracks. And although my hubby and son normally do short oval racing I still worry myself silly. fire being my biggest fear. I am always uncomfortable when we race mile ovals such as Mallory or Llandow circuits as the speeds much higher. Hubby and son are planning on racing at circuits next year doing the Silhouette series. Brands, Lydden Hill, Snetterton etc. I feel sick with worry already Still at least its not single seater racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 RIP Terrible. Just in the wrong spot at the wrong time, like that horrible Tom Pryce accident. I suppose we should be thankful it doesn't happen more often in open-wheel racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 RIP, Thats just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 RIP Terrible. Just in the wrong spot at the wrong time, like that horrible Tom Pryce accident. I suppose we should be thankful it doesn't happen more often in open-wheel racing. It reminded me immediately of that one too in the way he kept going after the accident and the barriers had to stop him. I suppose we should also be thankful that it didn't take out anyone else in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 87 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 rip. was supposed to be a very promising driver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 difficult to believe but until the late 80's F1 lost at least one driver a year............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 0 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 part of the thrill of driving fast, is the knowledge that there is a chance of death. as someone mentioned above, people used to die all the time in Motorsport, its only the last few years where society has become totally risk-averse, and safety is now paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14136 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 And just as another young talent gets his shot at the big-time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8158722.stm It's a cruel old sport sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 difficult to believe but until the late 80's F1 lost at least one driver a year............................. Not difficult to believe at all. Although your estimate is predictably way off. Late 70s perhaps but in the 80s as a whole there were only 3 drivers to perish: Villeneuve & Palletti in 1982 De Angelis in 1986 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 difficult to believe but until the late 80's F1 lost at least one driver a year............................. Not difficult to believe at all. Although your estimate is predictably way off. Late 70s perhaps but in the 80s as a whole there were only 3 drivers to perish: Villeneuve & Palletti in 1982 De Angelis in 1986 And iirc Elio de Angelis wasn't killed at a race weekend. He was testing at Paul Ricard when he crashed. There were no marshalls anywhere near to help get him out of the car and no emergency helicopter on standby. His injuries were minor but he died from smoke inhalation. There is no doubt he would've survived if the proper safety procedures were in place. I think the seventies must've been the worse era for driver safety as that decade saw the biggest gap between high speeds and low safety standards. There's some horrific footage from that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Yep Elio did die during testing at Paul Ricard. Not sure about the lack of marshalling, helicopter, etc. but it's probably right. Stefan Bellof also died in the 80s but had left F1 at that time and was driving sportscars. Died at Eau Rouge when trying to overtake someone. A driver much like Gilles Villeneuve for wearing his testicles outside of his racesuit which ultimately led to his death. Awesome racer and IIRC, the guy who Brundle claims was his bigger ever threat as a team-mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Following young Surtee's death this week, it seems Massa's crash today is all to similar, lucky he was hit by a spring instead of a wheel ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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