The Owld Fecker 0 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 From where I sit (if the positions were reversed) I would want someone who understood the division, had already "cut his teeth" and had a proven record of success! I understand that you can talk about "passion for the club" etc., but so did Kevin Ball (for us) and his record compares, favourably, with that of A.S! You can throw RK at me but I do not think that the position that we found ourselves in can be compared, directly, with yours. We had no, supposedly, decent players and had just suffered not just relegation, but relegation with a record low number of points (at that time). In addition, we were at the bottom of The Championship, after IIRC 4 games! We just needed a lift that a "name" would bring - any "name"! You guy's are IMHO in a, totally, different position. You don't need a "name" to re-awaken interest, or re-affirm that you are a big club, we had lost/were losing fast any claim on that tag! I think that you still are viewed as a big club (albeit a laughing stock, at the moment). Surely, what you need is someone capable of getting you back into The Prem (maybe, stabalise for one season and then go for it, or go for it first time, whilst the "parachute" payments are still there) - no more no less, then you can build, again, from there, not another "Messiah"! For me, if that would involve a "Mic-Mac" type manager so-be-it. Build one block at a time, as we are now attempting to do - No more no less! No smiley - I think one would give the wrong impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Shearer and Dowie will have the right amount of experience and crowd backing to get us back up. Dowie has experience of getting promoted from the championship (which people seem to forget) and he will know the in and outs of the league. Shearer will have the players disciplined and acting like professionals so they aren't slacking and they understand they have an obligation to give their all. At the moment the club needs galvanising and Shearer and Dowie will be as good as anyone to do it. People just like to have a go at us due to this media invented,perpetuated and mocked messiah rubbish. I don't see anyone criticising AC Milan's appointment of Leonardo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Pede 0 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Newcastle need someone who won't back down in a row. Someone who is willing to call bullshit. And then of course, someone willing to actually take the job. Not alot of those people around these days. I think people are pinning there hopes on Shearer won't be bullied around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Did you speak to any Newcastle fans or just get that from a variety of media outlets? A serious question btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4291 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 keano etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I dont necessarily think Shearer would be a great manager. Im not saying he wouldnt either. Thing is, no one, not even Shearer know the answer to that. All I would say is that he would lift the fans and team/club. How long would that last though? Probably until the first defeat. So, west brom then After that, I do think he (and Dowie?) could do a decent job. I dont think any expects miracles. But I do think he could get us out of the championship (though each day that goes by I think that chance drops). Main point though, what other options do we have? People are hardly going to be breaking the door down to get the role... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18088 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Did you speak to any Newcastle fans or just get that from a variety of media outlets? A serious question btw I bet he got it from the SMB. I used to think that place was OK for a rival board but it is now full of such bitter arseholes they genuinely believe that what has happened to us is the fans fault (hounding out Allerdyce for the Messiah etc). While, of course, no doubt they were faultless when their club underwent its humiliation, but anyway.... For the record, I'd settle for just about any manager now barring Kinnear. Shearer though is the only person I can think of who really wants the job so would be a sensible choice, perhaps the only choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4017 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 On an instinctive level I've always noticed that good managers have a strength of character and determination to win which could be described as being a cunt - I think Shearer meets the criteria on that basis. In practical terms I think its the right time - despite all the talk of an instant return I think the pressure is actually not that intense considering the realistic view of where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 From where I sit (if the positions were reversed) I would want someone who understood the division, had already "cut his teeth" and had a proven record of success! Ignoring the rest of the tabloid 1. Who exactly would that be? 2. Why would Assley appoint them when his whole reason for not appointing Shearer is because he thinks it will reduce the salelability of the club with a manager installed (self-destructive, but that is Assley)? 3. Why would this wonderful manager come to the club in the utter mess it is in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9270 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm of the opinion that, regardless of how good Shearer is, nobody can succeed at Newcastle untied until Shearer fails. His shadow looms large over St James and whom-so-ever takes up the reigns they'll always be looking over their shoulder. The more reactionary fans will clamour for the return of Alan whenever results don't go our way. The media will inevitably mention their fabricated messiah whenever we're mentioned as well. That's my two-penneth anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm of the opinion that, regardless of how good Shearer is, nobody can succeed at Newcastle untied until Shearer fails. His shadow looms large over St James and whom-so-ever takes up the reigns they'll always be looking over their shoulder. The more reactionary fans will clamour for the return of Alan whenever results don't go our way. The media will inevitably mention their fabricated messiah whenever we're mentioned as well. That's my two-penneth anyway. Don't agree with that but I'd like him to take over because he'll only do so with guarantees in place. I'd say not having a good owner is the barrier to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4291 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm of the opinion that, regardless of how good Shearer is, nobody can succeed at Newcastle untied until Shearer fails. His shadow looms large over St James and whom-so-ever takes up the reigns they'll always be looking over their shoulder. The more reactionary fans will clamour for the return of Alan whenever results don't go our way. The media will inevitably mention their fabricated messiah whenever we're mentioned as well. That's my two-penneth anyway. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I've never heard anyone say that like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giraffidae 0 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Of course it’s a big worry that Shearer is inexperienced and doesn’t know the league. From his 8 weeks previous as manager he knew before he started he needed help (Dowie, et al), so I can’t see it happening any differently now. Even experienced managers cock up (don’t we know it!) so there is always an element of risk. Look at Barca they took the risk with Papa Guardiola. The reality is that we’re not going to get the calibre of a Roy Hodgson etc, these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebrief 0 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 For the record, I'd settle for just about any manager now barring Kinnear or Souness . Shearer though is the only person I can think of who really wants the job so would be a sensible choice, perhaps the only choice. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I've never heard anyone say that like. Neither have I. I also hold the people who see fit to judge a manager after 8 games and who criticise the people enthusiastic about Shearer in rather poor light. At this stage in a man's managerial career nobody really knows how it will turn out. We can gather Shearer was at least decent if we go on feedback from the players. ''Since Alan has came in things are more organised and the place has felt more like a football club'' Damien Duff. (something to that effect anyway) Add this to the players who were calling for Shearer to get the job and you can see he must have been doing something right. He's a mile better than Kinnear or Houghton for a start. and people seem to forget it will be Shearer & Dowie. (which for me is important) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I can't work out whether we're delusional in demanding the next Messiah or defeatist for accepting that Shearer is one of the only people with any cred out there who wants the job. Probably depends what paper I'm reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I think we are delusional because everybody thinks we have the best fans in the world, we are a massive massive club and Keegan and Shearer are the only ones who could possibly manage us and if we don't get one or the other we will protest and kick up a fuss. Of course there is that and the fact we hounded Allardyce out of his job and all clamoured to get Keegan back etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9270 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Tom, it's unclear whether you think I'm saying anything derogatory about the people who're enthusiastic about Shearer or not. I'll set my stall regarding whether I think he will be a good manager just in case. I think he's got all the requisites, strong character, level head, passion tempered by experience. He's played at the top level and has endured horrific times too. He has been managed by some great man-managers in Keegan and Robson and has had disciplinarians too. Tactically he may be suspect but that won't be clear until he's given time and off the back of eight games he's shown he's not afraid to mix things up a little. Like all wise men should, the first thing he did was identify his own weakness and do things to address it. Dowie might not be a great manager but from all accounts he's a good coach, Shearer knew this and brought him in to help that side of things. In short I think he could be a good manager, but only time will tell. I also think whoever comes in will have to do something miraculous to escape Shearer's shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 A serious question - not an attempted "wind up"!, Do you have a source for anyone (let alone "so many") saying Shearer will be 'great'TM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wasn't referring to you Fish By the way I have no idea whether Shearer is going to be good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9270 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fair do's, you Vileda coiffured bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Most of my thoughts have been echoed elsewhere in this thread but here they are anyway: We currently need a manager now, today, not tomorrow, not next week but immediately. It takes time to recruit a manager from scratch, you need to identify your targets, get agreement to talk to them from their current club (if theyre any good that is), talk to them, agree terms and then agree a compensation package with the current club. Once installed, they need to get upto scratch on players, staff and everything else. All of that is in an ideal world where these managers are banging on our door begging to be chosen, they're not, nobody in their right mind would take this job under Ashley and co, nobody wants to work under them as proven last time (when we were a Premiership club, not a dying Championship one). On top of that theres the fact that the clubs being sold and if rumours are true, most if not all of those looking to buy us want Shearer as manager so it could be a short lived appointment. Add to that the fact that no matter what the fans, players etc would be more than happy if it was Shearer then anyone coming in is already on the back foot. So we cant realistically expect to recruit anyone that way which leaves us with those that have expressed an interest..... so thats Shearer and Kinnear Case closed m'lud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Owld Fecker 0 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Did you speak to any Newcastle fans or just get that from a variety of media outlets? A serious question btw In part I was passing on the questions raised by a couple of United supporting friends of mine, who live in the same city, as me, in Thailand. They seem, as much, puzzled by the clamour for a Shearer appointment (based on their contact with their friends/family at home) as I am. From where I sit (if the positions were reversed) I would want someone who understood the division, had already "cut his teeth" and had a proven record of success! Ignoring the rest of the tabloid 1. Who exactly would that be? 2. Why would Assley appoint them when his whole reason for not appointing Shearer is because he thinks it will reduce the salelability of the club with a manager installed (self-destructive, but that is Assley)? 3. Why would this wonderful manager come to the club in the utter mess it is in? The question was not conditional on who owned the club but based upon who would do the best job for you, once an appointment was made. To answer your second point, because he would/should see it as a major step forward in his career and an opportunity to make a “real” name for himself. I'm of the opinion that, regardless of how good Shearer is, nobody can succeed at Newcastle untied until Shearer fails. His shadow looms large over St James and whom-so-ever takes up the reigns they'll always be looking over their shoulder. The more reactionary fans will clamour for the return of Alan whenever results don't go our way. The media will inevitably mention their fabricated messiah whenever we're mentioned as well. That's my two-penneth anyway. I think, unfortunately, that there is more than a modicum of truth in that one marra. A serious question - not an attempted "wind up"!, Do you have a source for anyone (let alone "so many") saying Shearer will be 'great'TM? Sorry mate, maybe I should have used the word “good” instead. Most of my thoughts have been echoed elsewhere in this thread but here they are anyway: We currently need a manager now, today, not tomorrow, not next week but immediately. It takes time to recruit a manager from scratch, you need to identify your targets, get agreement to talk to them from their current club (if theyre any good that is), talk to them, agree terms and then agree a compensation package with the current club. Once installed, they need to get upto scratch on players, staff and everything else. All of that is in an ideal world where these managers are banging on our door begging to be chosen, they're not, nobody in their right mind would take this job under Ashley and co, nobody wants to work under them as proven last time (when we were a Premiership club, not a dying Championship one). On top of that theres the fact that the clubs being sold and if rumours are true, most if not all of those looking to buy us want Shearer as manager so it could be a short lived appointment. Add to that the fact that no matter what the fans, players etc would be more than happy if it was Shearer then anyone coming in is already on the back foot. So we cant realistically expect to recruit anyone that way which leaves us with those that have expressed an interest..... so thats Shearer and Kinnear Case closed m'lud. I think that is a dangerous argument. Newcastle have only two years to get back into the Premiership, before the parachute payments run out, so it is vital (in my eyes) that expediency should play no part in any appointment. Having said that I don’t think that, once the ownership uncertainty is resolved, it should be difficult to attract the right man for the job which (again in my eyes) would not be someone making demands for a (reported) £30M transfer kitty! Instead if MA does stay, which is looking more and more likely, someone who would be happy to “wheel & deal” with a % of funds raised from outgoing transfers, is used to using the "loan market", effectively, and has proved that he can, successfully, work that way. Please don't forget that whether he stays or not that there are major financial issues that need to be, urgently, addressed! Someone like (maybe) Darren Ferguson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think that is a dangerous argument. Newcastle have only two years to get back into the Premiership, before the parachute payments run out, so it is vital (in my eyes) that expediency should play no part in any appointment. Having said that I don’t think that, once the ownership uncertainty is resolved, it should be difficult to attract the right man for the job which (again in my eyes) would not be someone making demands for a (reported) £30M transfer kitty! Instead if MA does stay, which is looking more and more likely, someone who would be happy to “wheel & deal” with a % of funds raised from outgoing transfers, is used to using the "loan market", effectively, and has proved that he can, successfully, work that way. Please don't forget that whether he stays or not that there are major financial issues that need to be, urgently, addressed! Someone like (maybe) Darren Ferguson? The point Im making though is that nobody will work under Ashley, we had no takers for the job last time except Kinnear and now we're in a bigger pile of shite than then. Simple fact of life is, its Shearer or Kinnear under Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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