Soham killer Huntley to sue over throat slash attack

[Craig 6321]

i don't think leazesmag should be banned purely because of his comedic value to topics like this

 

You think it's comedy, he's deadly serious. And where the hell did the question of banning come into this?

[SloopJohn 0]

i heard it banded around a while ago

 

in terms of comic i mean laughing at him and not with

[Craig 6321]

i heard it banded around a while ago

 

Must be mixed up with another forum

[SloopJohn 0]

[LeazesMag 0]

i don't think leazesmag should be banned purely because of his comedic value to topics like this

 

I reckon idiotic do gooders like you should be put down too lad. Are you another yank ?

 

 

As was said by someone else, your "holier than thou" attitude leaves a lot to be desired. Before condeming anyone who thinks they shouldn't want child murderers executed, put yourself in the position of the parents of one of them.

 

And Craig, I meant what I said ie disperse them and then deal with the other immigration problem, I've posted my views on this topic in the past.

[LeazesMag 0]

Incidentally, apart from the holier than thou idiots, those in favour of the death penalty in this thread, what crimes in particular would you advocate it for ?

[NJS 3992]

Death penalty aside (which I reject) and not withstanding who it is, I think its fair enough to question the "duty of care" owed to prisoners. I know some may like the idea of prisons being free for alls where bastards can get their come-uppance but I think they should be reasonably safe places. I would have been happier for example to see Fred West spend 50+ years locked up rather than the convenience of turning a blind eye to his suicide.

 

We've all seen Scum and presuming some truth in it I'd hate to see people who may be inside for pretty minor offences brutalised by a system which would only turn them into even more useless members of society on release.

 

As I said I realise this doesn't really apply to Humtley but in general I don't think prisons should be "thunderdomes".

[JawD 31]

I'd agree with the death penalty in cases such as this. I'd struggle to comprehend how anyone with kids, who imagined this was their kids, could want anything different.

 

Ideally though, Id take people like this and dump them on some isolated island to fend for themselves, out of society.

 

No, not australia

[LeazesMag 0]

Death penalty aside (which I reject) and not withstanding who it is, I think its fair enough to question the "duty of care" owed to prisoners. I know some may like the idea of prisons being free for alls where bastards can get their come-uppance but I think they should be reasonably safe places. I would have been happier for example to see Fred West spend 50+ years locked up rather than the convenience of turning a blind eye to his suicide.

 

We've all seen Scum and presuming some truth in it I'd hate to see people who may be inside for pretty minor offences brutalised by a system which would only turn them into even more useless members of society on release.

 

As I said I realise this doesn't really apply to Humtley but in general I don't think prisons should be "thunderdomes".

 

What should have been safe was the streets of Soham for those 2 girls from shitbags like Huntley. While I think the Death Penalty has its merits for scum like him, a miserable life behind bars and the occasional lynching by some fellow inmate as an alternative is well deserved.

 

Release ? You are joking.

[NJS 3992]

Release ? You are joking.

 

You missed the part where I said I was talking in general about prison care - I don't think he should or will ever be released.

 

 

I also know you don't agree, but if every child murderer before him had been executed it would not have made the slightest difference to his actions.

[LeazesMag 0]

Release ? You are joking.

 

You missed the part where I said I was talking in general about prison care - I don't think he should or will ever be released.

 

 

I also know you don't agree, but if every child murderer before him had been executed it would not have made the slightest difference to his actions.

 

How do you know it would have made no difference to his actions ?

 

Edit.

 

In actual fact, if the Death Penaly isn't a deterrent, then perhaps the prospect of a miserable life behind bars and the occasional lynching by fellow inmates would be ?

Edited July 31, 2010 by LeazesMag

[NJS 3992]

Release ? You are joking.

 

You missed the part where I said I was talking in general about prison care - I don't think he should or will ever be released.

 

 

I also know you don't agree, but if every child murderer before him had been executed it would not have made the slightest difference to his actions.

 

How do you know it would have made no difference to his actions ?

 

Edit.

 

In actual fact, if the Death Penaly isn't a deterrent, then perhaps the prospect of a miserable life behind bars and the occasional lynching by fellow inmates would be ?

 

Firstly because I think its safe to say that people like him are suffering from some form of mental problem which wouldn't be that much influenced by any punishment scenarios - whether death or life sentence. I don't know about him but serial killers like Sutcliffe certainly see themselves as untouchable by the law who they consider their lessers.

 

Secondly something like 95% of more general murders are spur of the moment loss of control actions so again fear of punishment doesn't really come into it.

 

Thirdly there is no correlation in the US murder wise between states with and without the death penalty - it doesn't work as a deterrent full stop.

 

Of course the revenge angle exists which I accept as a view but just feel morally you can't say "killing is wrong so we're going to kill you" and maintain any kind of just stance.

[LeazesMag 0]

Release ? You are joking.

 

You missed the part where I said I was talking in general about prison care - I don't think he should or will ever be released.

 

 

I also know you don't agree, but if every child murderer before him had been executed it would not have made the slightest difference to his actions.

 

How do you know it would have made no difference to his actions ?

 

Edit.

 

In actual fact, if the Death Penaly isn't a deterrent, then perhaps the prospect of a miserable life behind bars and the occasional lynching by fellow inmates would be ?

 

Firstly because I think its safe to say that people like him are suffering from some form of mental problem which wouldn't be that much influenced by any punishment scenarios - whether death or life sentence. I don't know about him but serial killers like Sutcliffe certainly see themselves as untouchable by the law who they consider their lessers.

 

Secondly something like 95% of more general murders are spur of the moment loss of control actions so again fear of punishment doesn't really come into it.

 

Thirdly there is no correlation in the US murder wise between states with and without the death penalty - it doesn't work as a deterrent full stop.

 

Of course the revenge angle exists which I accept as a view but just feel morally you can't say "killing is wrong so we're going to kill you" and maintain any kind of just stance.

 

Yes, they are suffering from a mental problem, of course they are, but where do you get 95% from and what about the other 5% ? Do this 5% therefore not suffer from a "mental problem" ? Don't you think even prevention of just one murder is justification for taking more hard line measures/punishments [especially if it someone close to you that is the innocent victim] ?

 

What do you think about Jon Venables ?

 

What do you think of terrorists who deliberately murder civilians ? Do you also think they should be excused for having a "mental problem" ?

[LeazesMag 0]

To get back on track, the fact that the idea of Huntley suing the prison service is being entertained at all makes a mockery of the justice system.

 

He deserves all he gets. The only people with any grounds at all is the parents and family of those 2 girls and no amount of money, absolutely nothing in the world can bring them back.

 

If someone killed my daughter, I'd shoot them myself.

Edited July 31, 2010 by LeazesMag

[sniffer 0]

Anybody with any balls would, LM.

 

That excludes half this board though. They'd be happy with a handful of years served and the certain knowledge that the murderer had paid their debt to society.

 

Not much value on that life taken when you think about it.

[sniffer 0]

The only people making anything out of a lawsuit are, as usual, the lawyers. Laughing all the way to the bank.

[TheMoog 0]

To get back on track, the fact that the idea of Huntley suing the prison service is being entertained at all makes a mockery of the justice system.

 

He deserves all he gets. The only people with any grounds at all is the parents and family of those 2 girls and no amount of money, absolutely nothing in the world can bring them back.

 

If someone killed my daughter, I'd shoot them myself.

 

And rightly so. I got called a sicko and all sorts for suggesting I'd like the job of hangman, I can't think of anything more satisfying than being the man to pull the handle on the trapdoor for cunts like Huntley.

[LeazesMag 0]

Anybody with any balls would, LM.

 

That excludes half this board though. They'd be happy with a handful of years served and the certain knowledge that the murderer had paid their debt to society.

 

Not much value on that life taken when you think about it.

 

I can only presume they don't have kids when they can't comprehend it. Even thinking of anyone even hurting your child chills you to the bone.

[Kid Dynamite 6068]

On a wider point about the state of crime in this country as a whole, when are we going to start punishing people properly. Rob a house or a car and get a minimum one year sentence. Do it a second time and get 3 years. Stab someone and you get 20 years. Fuck this running sentences side by side, and half knocked off for good behaviour. Its well known that the majority of crime is committed by a minority of people. 12 months zero tolerance and I bet the crime rate would drop rapidly.

 

Yes I know it would cost a fortune to build the jails but its got to be worth it in the long run. Pull our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and you would save billions!

[Craig 6321]

To put it into context; If Huntley succeeds in his claim, he could stand to pocket £20,000 for being attacked. The Wells and Chapman families each received £11,000 in compensation for the murders of their daughters - an event that come about because the system had failed and Huntley was in the position to be able to commit his horrific crimes when he clearly shouldn't have been.

 

And people wonder why the justice system is considered 'fucked up'?!

[Craig 6321]

Soham killer Huntley 'should not sue' over jail attack

 

Soham murderer Ian Huntley should drop a compensation claim against the Prison Service after an inmate slashed his throat, victims campaigners have said.

 

The former school caretaker will claim the service failed in its duty of care towards him over the incident.

 

Campaigner Ann Oakes-Odger, whose son Westley was killed in a knife attack in 2005, described Huntley's decision to sue as an "absolute moral obscenity".

 

She asked why he had access to legal aid if victims' families did not.

 

Huntley, 36, killed 10-year-olds Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in 2002.

 

A Ministry of Justice spokesman said the compensation claim would be "vigorously defended".

 

Ms Oakes-Odger said: "When somebody has a child murdered or a loved one murdered the life that they knew prior to that ceases to be.

 

"There's a line drawn under what they knew as a family life, their health suffers, many people lose their homes because they cannot work, and there's no real access to compensation for them.

 

"We have to get back to the situation where there's a level playing field. This is quite immoral that we are having this discussion about a man that took the lives of two small children.

 

"Why should he have access to legal aid when victims' families do not have that right?"

 

Earlier this year the then Justice Secretary Jack Straw said the government had "absolutely no intention" of paying compensation to Huntley over the attack.

 

At Commons question time it emerged he could be awarded up to £20,000 if a claim for negligence were successful.

 

Norman Brennan, founder of the Victims of Crime Trust, said that if Huntley won his claim, his victims' families should sue him.

 

Mr Brennan said: "If Huntley had the slightest remorse for the terrible murder of these two girls he would drop the case immediately and get on with serving his sentence, and just be thankful it's not pre-1967 when he may well have been sentenced to the hangman's noose.

 

"The compensation culture in Britain has turned our criminal justice system on its head. What message is sent out when the two families in this matter received maximum £11,000 and yet Huntley, for injuries received while serving a sentence, could get many times that.

 

"Huntley is the one responsible for being in prison. He should shut up."

 

In September 2005 Huntley was scalded with boiling water at Wakefield Prison.

 

He had been in the health care wing of the West Yorkshire jail at the time of the attack.

 

In 2008 Huntley was moved to HMP Frankland, a Category A high security men's prison.

 

While at Frankland he was attacked and slashed across the throat by a prisoner who was said to have been armed with a razor blade.

 

It is believed that Huntley has tried to commit suicide three times since his conviction in December 2003.

 

A Ministry of Justice spokesman confirmed the legal action by Huntley, who is understood to be claiming £20,000 for injuries suffered and a sum - put at £60,000 in one report - for failure to uphold the duty of care.

 

"Ian Huntley is bringing a claim against the Ministry of Justice following an assault by another prisoner," the spokesman said.

 

Juliet Lyon, of the Prison Reform Trust, said it was a difficult issue for the government to handle, as Huntley had committed such a heinous crime, but there was a principle that prisons needed to be safe places.

 

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The issue of safety and security is absolutely a bedrock one.

 

"It's a difficult place now for the Ministry of Justice because they have to hold that line. If a court sentences someone to custody they're not sentencing them to be attacked.

 

"We have to expect that our prison service is going to be a safe, secure place. What happens thereafter if that breaks down, if the staff aren't able to hold that line, it's then up to the individual to pursue any means that they're able to."

 

Colin Moses, national chairman of the Prison Officers Association (POA), said a "compensation culture for inmates" was developing within the prison service.

 

He said: "This claim has to be set against the levels of compensation for staff who are attacked.

 

"We have to fight for every penny we can for members, who are working in what is now a very violent place.

 

"It was my members who saved Mr Huntley after this attack, it will be my members who continue to save him if he is attacked again."

 

Grimsby-born Huntley was a caretaker in the Cambridgeshire village of Soham when he enticed Holly and Jessica into his home.

 

The girls were killed and their remains hidden.

 

He was convicted with his then girlfriend Maxine Carr who had worked as a teaching assistant at the school.

 

She was found guilty of perverting the course of justice but has since been released and given a new identity.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10825238

[SloopJohn 0]

i don't think leazesmag should be banned purely because of his comedic value to topics like this

 

I reckon idiotic do gooders like you should be put down too lad. Are you another yank ?

 

 

As was said by someone else, your "holier than thou" attitude leaves a lot to be desired. Before condeming anyone who thinks they shouldn't want child murderers executed, put yourself in the position of the parents of one of them.

 

And Craig, I meant what I said ie disperse them and then deal with the other immigration problem, I've posted my views on this topic in the past.

 

This whole 'Holier-than-thou' slander is bizarre. Because, as I said earlier, by deeming my opinions 'holier than thou' you are automatically framing yourself as the 'correct' one in this topic which ironically, in itself, is just another form of piety as all your trying to achieve with an insult like that is by making yourself look intellectually superior to me, or as you so succinctly put it, 'Holier-than-thou'.

 

And yes I've tried to put myself in their position, as far as one can empathise with such an extreme situation, and I think it's incredibly presumptuous to assume that Holly & Jessica's parents would want Huntley dead. Do you remember the Rhys Jones case? -

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/6624649...orgiveness.html

[Guest alex]

What fucks me off is he probably won't even get the compensation but the cunt giving him legal advice will presumably earn an absolute fortune off the taxpayer.

[Rob W 0]

Release ? You are joking.

 

You missed the part where I said I was talking in general about prison care - I don't think he should or will ever be released.

 

 

I also know you don't agree, but if every child murderer before him had been executed it would not have made the slightest difference to his actions.

 

How do you know it would have made no difference to his actions ?

 

Edit.

 

In actual fact, if the Death Penaly isn't a deterrent, then perhaps the prospect of a miserable life behind bars and the occasional lynching by fellow inmates would be ?

 

Firstly because I think its safe to say that people like him are suffering from some form of mental problem which wouldn't be that much influenced by any punishment scenarios - whether death or life sentence. I don't know about him but serial killers like Sutcliffe certainly see themselves as untouchable by the law who they consider their lessers.

 

Secondly something like 95% of more general murders are spur of the moment loss of control actions so again fear of punishment doesn't really come into it.

 

Thirdly there is no correlation in the US murder wise between states with and without the death penalty - it doesn't work as a deterrent full stop.

 

Of course the revenge angle exists which I accept as a view but just feel morally you can't say "killing is wrong so we're going to kill you" and maintain any kind of just stance.

 

Yes, they are suffering from a mental problem, of course they are, but where do you get 95% from and what about the other 5% ? Do this 5% therefore not suffer from a "mental problem" ? Don't you think even prevention of just one murder is justification for taking more hard line measures/punishments [especially if it someone close to you that is the innocent victim] ?

 

What do you think about Jon Venables ?

 

What do you think of terrorists who deliberately murder civilians ? Do you also think they should be excused for having a "mental problem" ?

 

 

well established fact - over 90% of murders committed by someone the victim knows - over 60% are by a family member

Edited August 1, 2010 by Rob W

[Rob W 0]

What fucks me off is he probably won't even get the compensation but the cunt giving him legal advice will presumably earn an absolute fortune off the taxpayer.

 

 

not going to be a lot of good to him on a life sentence mind.................. and I suspect he'll never be allowed out