NUST meltdown

[peasepud 59]

what a fucking joke, as soon as people start discussing this on the forum......

[Temuris_chrome_dome 0]

what a fucking joke, as soon as people start discussing this on the forum......

 

very predictable though.....

[Ketsbaia 0]

what a fucking joke, as soon as people start discussing this on the forum......

 

Fucking hell

 

Nice to see they're putting my ten quid to good use.

[ChezGiven 0]

Leadership is a rare quality and unfortunately an undertaking of this size requires those at the top to rise above petty politics and vanity.

 

The problem for those at the top of an organisation like this is the diversity, size and intensity of opinion.

 

If you think about factions in a political party, all united under their support for one team, the leadership needs to reach out to and speak to people with very differing points of view. Take the Labour party with its militant wing (the Ashley out at all costs) to the New Labour right-wingers (anyone but Shepherd). Leading that sort of organisation is a massive challenge and something like the NUST is a sort of mini-analogy for political leadership.

 

I've met lots of intelligent and passionate people in my work career but the only successful ones are those who have learnt to 'bring people with them'. Its the one skill that true leaders obsess over (e.g. Barry Obama) because thats how you translate a diversity of passion into action.

 

I'm not saying anything new here but the one massive failure i see around me at Director / Vice-President level is people who believe that leading things is just about forcing through what they want and think. I have no knowledge of the people running this thing but it does sound that they have equated election to a fledgling organisation with a mandate to then set the vision and direction. This would be wrong of them, given its infancy, the election imo gave them an opportunity to lead the development of the vision and direction. If its not shared, the organisation will fail.

 

Very disappointed that the people involved feel the way they do but one thing i would say, people shouldnt mistake passion and knowledge about NUFC with an ability to run a diverse supporters group. The two never equate in business or politics.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Sounds to me like someones been getting back handers off ashley to wind things down, no meetings in a year wtf.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Threads really crying out for a "yes gemmil".

[Tom_NUFC 0]

what a fucking joke, as soon as people start discussing this on the forum......

Banana Republic

[Park Life 70]

Leadership is a rare quality and unfortunately an undertaking of this size requires those at the top to rise above petty politics and vanity.

 

The problem for those at the top of an organisation like this is the diversity, size and intensity of opinion.

 

If you think about factions in a political party, all united under their support for one team, the leadership needs to reach out to and speak to people with very differing points of view. Take the Labour party with its militant wing (the Ashley out at all costs) to the New Labour right-wingers (anyone but Shepherd). Leading that sort of organisation is a massive challenge and something like the NUST is a sort of mini-analogy for political leadership.

 

I've met lots of intelligent and passionate people in my work career but the only successful ones are those who have learnt to 'bring people with them'. Its the one skill that true leaders obsess over (e.g. Barry Obama) because thats how you translate a diversity of passion into action.

 

I'm not saying anything new here but the one massive failure i see around me at Director / Vice-President level is people who believe that leading things is just about forcing through what they want and think. I have no knowledge of the people running this thing but it does sound that they have equated election to a fledgling organisation with a mandate to then set the vision and direction. This would be wrong of them, given its infancy, the election imo gave them an opportunity to lead the development of the vision and direction. If its not shared, the organisation will fail.

 

Very disappointed that the people involved feel the way they do but one thing i would say, people shouldnt mistake passion and knowledge about NUFC with an ability to run a diverse supporters group. The two never equate in business or politics.

 

The revolution never gets going till people are actually hungry.

[Kitman 2188]

From the outside it looks more like they're running a Soviet state dept than a supporters' club. They'll be holding their little meetings debating composite motions and points of order with a single figure membership in a year or two's time. Shame.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

From the outside it looks more like they're running a Soviet state dept than a supporters' club. They'll be holding their little meetings debating composite motions and points of order with a single figure membership in a year or two's time. Shame.

Aye. Sounds about right.

[MichaelNUFC 0]

Right now the only reason I’d renew would be to voice my concerns at the AGM. However, at the last members meeting I attended there was some lad at the back of the room hurling abuse at anyone who was too critical of the way the supporters group was being run. I don’t know if he was the committees ‘enforcer’ but I do know they did nothing about what basically boiled down to the suppression of dissent.

That meeting is basically the reason cited by the chair for why we should never hold another members meeting again.

 

You would assume that the abuse hurler was the main reason for his argument wouldnt you? well it wasnt, the abuser was, believe it or not, the PR expert (I shit ye not ) and the now chair got upset at the fact people even dared question the work that was going on.

 

And the people on the other end of the abuse? non other than Mick Martin of True Faith and a respected Solicitor both of whom were instrumental in the setting up of the NUSC.

 

Peter,

 

Was this the meeting at the Strawberry?

 

If so I'm surprised to hear you describe it this way. I wasn't in attendence (I'd departed these shores by that point) but what I read on the committee forum at the time was that the abuse was coming from one of the two you mention as being abused, rather than them being on the recieving end (although I don't doubt that our former PR man also spoke out of turn - as he seemed to fall out with most people and I recall him apologising for losing his head!).

 

I remember because Colin Whittle, who I have the utmost respect for, was close to resigning at the time and I remember texting him asking him to reconsider. Others such as Steve Hastie also spoke up to say they felt intimidated and unhappy with the lack of support from other committee members over what were regarded as verbal abuse from the two you mention. As I recall, most committee members who were in attendence apologised for saying nothing while this went on.

 

I believe the term "fuck the trust" was the main expression that Colin was unhappy with that night, spoken so it was reported, by one of the two who felt that the Trust wern't being militant enough in ousting Ashley and organising all manner of demonstrations instead of building something with credibility to do it first.

 

Again, you were there and I wasn't but I'm surprised to hear this description of events. If I'm wrong then I apologise but this is what I recall reading and it seemed the consensus at the time.

 

 

Lets be sure here though, this should not be the end of a NUFC fans organisation, it may well be the end of the Trust and it definitely should be the end of some peoples involvement on the board but there are good foundations for a well ran Supporters Club which we desperately need.

 

This is a very good point and to be totally honest there isn't really any need for talk of 'meltdown' either (at least outside of the present committee all of whom are temorary customdians of the organisation), anymore than there is a reason to declare the concept of government null and void when people decide they don't like the people running it. You simply vote them out and elect people more capable (although I suspect all this may well let some REAL tools get in at the next election). I'll be attending the AGM and I will sure as hell expect answers for this and many other things.

 

Once again there is nothing inherently wrong with the Trust model. The Trust model does not state you shouldn't consult your membership (it states the opposite), the Trust model does not state you shouldn't hold members meetings (again it advises the opposite). The Trust model doesn't state that you shoudn't engage the club, ask probing questions over stuff like that horrible advertising being plastered everywhere or ignore and exclude committee members who were voted in by the membership from important internal debate and discussion.

 

Again, these are all decisions that have been alledgedly taken by individuals and have nothing whatsoever to do with Trust status; something that was acquired for the sole reason that it's the only legitimate way of striving to achieve a fan-owned stake in the club. That's why I find it so depressing that people say they arn't renewing or are giving up on the idea after one term simply because they don't like the direction one elected committe took it in over a little under 12 months. Just vote them out, I'm sure there will be (hopefully sensible) alternatives come election.

This was and is supposed to be a long term project and if it goes tits up, yes we can all throw stones at a few hand picked ogres for not performing to scratch, but it will ultimately have failed because people just didn't care enough about the concept and cared too much about the temporary custodians.

To me this would be like giving up on my football team because I don't like the people in charge. I wish it was as easy to vote for a new owner of NUFC as it is to vote for a new board of NUST.

 

In reference to the resignation of a board member I would just like to say that imo Bill Corcoran has done more to get this organisation moving and running in the right direction than possibly anyone else involved throughout the organisations short history, from donating premises to chairing public debates to organising special guest speakers for roadshows to speaking to the press to meeting and wooing MP's and members of the council to pouring untold hours into financial proposals and God knows what else. Bill was also instrumental in securing NUST the chance to talk face to face with D Llambias and allow real questions to be put to the man unlike the drivel we got from Thompson house earlier that month.

 

I would like to thank him here as I can't on the official forum for everything he has done and urge him not to blame himself for what has happened but to stand at the next election with his head held high and deservedly take the central place he deserves on any forward thinking committee of this Trust. He will have my vote should he do so and, I suspect, many others. He is a man of intelligence and courage and the fact that he has felt it necessary to resign this term is, quite frankly, a disgrace.

 

And speaking of disgraces what a shame that the handful of well-meaning, genuinelly good people who, three years ago, could be bothered to get together and try and build something that could still be great have now been reduced to arguing the toss with each other or have become seemingly incapable of speaking to each other. It seems like we've forgotten who the real enemy was all along... and how he must be laughing from whatever Dubai Hotel he's currently cashing chips in while he speculates on where he can hang his next tacky hoarding.

Edited November 26, 2010 by MichaelNUFC

[Christmas Tree 3997]

A nice enough post but the dash to trust status didnt need to happen so quickly. Im sure the majority of members and supporters, consider the idea of fan ownership a far off pipe dream. The original committee should have banked the goodwill and membership and really put all their efforts into creating a lasting supporters club first and foremost.

 

It seems to an outsider that everyones heads got turned by trust status and by a few indiviuals pushing the yes we can campaign. The YWC campaign caused lasting damage to NUST's credability and as a few have mentioned, there probably is no coming back unless a massive change occurs.

 

You liken this to a democratic party but that is far too simplistic a view. People united over an issue (Keegan) and the decline has beAen downhill ever since. Every decision seems to have been short term and has led to further fracturing of the membership.

 

A democratis party, governs, raises taxes and effects our lives so we are bound to stay involved. NUSC / NUST effects my life not one iota. It spent its early days preaching rather than doing and its second year ignoring.

 

An opportunity has been wasted.

[Kitman 2188]

Maybe representing the views of the rank and file's too much of a heavy lift anyway. From a distance and with hindsight maybe the trust status has been too much of a distraction? A lot of time, money and energy has been invested in it and for what I wonder?

[Monroe Transfer 0]

I'm sure calling him the "enemy" will do wonders for your relationship when/if you speak to the club again.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

Michael, some interesting points there.

In terms of the trust model, you are absolutely correct. The model and the trust itself is not the problem here. The problem is that some of the present committee are not running things or acting in the correct manner.

 

I also echo your views about Bill Corcoran 100%. Bill has been nothing but honest and genuine. Unfortunately, it would appear that his opinions and the views of two or three others on the committee have simply been outnumbered or ignored. I too think that Bill should be involved in the future, and I can think of at least two others from the current committee who I would also like to see involved.

 

I think the meeting you refer to was a Members Meeting (in the days when we still had them) at the Irish Club. You are right, I think most of the then committee (myself included) did feel a little bit upset by some of the comments from those two members. That said, the two members were perfectly entitled to express their opinions and ask questions of the committee. As a committee you have to be prepared to answer questions and face criticism. You can't just decide not to hold members meetings in case someone says something you don't like or don't want to hear.

 

It's a massive shame that the actions of the committee have to be highlighted and questioned. After the election I e-mailed the (new) committee members to congratulate them, wish them luck and to offer my assistance should it be required at any point. I told them I felt sure that they would carry on the good work. And personally I would have happily left it at that. Sadly though, that didn't happen and I don't think it's something that can be ignored.

 

I can totally understand anyone who hasn't renewed. I mean what have they got? A keyring and a car sticker because there has been no opportunity since last October to attend a members meeting and since the election, no Roadshows (which anyone is welcome to attend) and no other direct contact with the elected committee at all. It's what I feared. Renewal time in October, no meetings or communication. Of course people were going to leave in droves. That's what got me worried and looking into how often meetings should be held.

 

I only renewed out of loyalty to something I was involved with since that very first open meeting at the Irish Club in September 2008. Otherwise I may well have packed it in too. The thing is though, they do HAVE to hold an AGM by January and members need to get along and voice any opinions/concerns they may have over the way the trust is run and the more people that do this, the better.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Tom_NUFC

[peasepud 59]

Can anyone who is a member try logging into the website members area for me.

 

 

Im getting an "Invalid Token" error but the cynic in me says its just me thats going to get that.

 

Also, can any of you who havent renewed PM me your membership number as Im inspecting the members register on Tuesday and I want to be sure its upto date so if I know some numbers that shouldnt be there I can do some random checks.

 

Cheers

[Tom_NUFC 0]

Can anyone who is a member try logging into the website members area for me.

 

 

Im getting an "Invalid Token" error but the cynic in me says its just me thats going to get that.

 

Also, can any of you who havent renewed PM me your membership number as Im inspecting the members register on Tuesday and I want to be sure its upto date so if I know some numbers that shouldnt be there I can do some random checks.

 

Cheers

 

I can still get in and I would think if they'd barred you they would probably have done the same to me

[Ketsbaia 0]

The board is still down?

 

Fucking hell.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

The board is still down?

 

Fucking hell.

 

It is. It's incredibly childish of them.

People dare to criticise or question them and instead of facing and answering these criticisms they go into a sulk and take their ball home.

[peasepud 59]

Jensen never wanted the forum in the first place if I remember correctly.

 

The token errors not happening now must have just been a glitch.

[Park Life 70]

Stalinist Coup going on by the look of things.

[Temuris_chrome_dome 0]

Stalinist Coup going on by the look of things.

 

its more like ceausescu - a cult of (non) personality they'll tell you how to think, they'll stop people saying what they don't want to hear by any means possible and then tell you its all for your own good because they know best and its democratic

[Park Life 70]

Stalinist Coup going on by the look of things.

 

its more like ceausescu - a cult of (non) personality they'll tell you how to think, they'll stop people saying what they don't want to hear by any means possible and then tell you its all for your own good because they know best and its democratic

 

Sounds good.

[Rob W 0]

I'm not a member but don't see where helping the disadvantaged comes into the equation (not that I don't think its an admirable thing to do of course) I just wonder why they've gone down that route? Is that what the NUST set out to do?

I don't really know what the aims are any more which is why I'm not sure about renewing. Perhaps they need to tell us exactly what they are. I know a tenner isn't much in the grand scheme of things but I still want to know where it's going before handing it over.

 

 

agreed - sounds more like Social Work than a march on the Bastille to me

[Rob W 0]

Stalinist Coup going on by the look of things.

 

its more like ceausescu - a cult of (non) personality they'll tell you how to think, they'll stop people saying what they don't want to hear by any means possible and then tell you its all for your own good because they know best and its democratic

 

Sounds good.

 

 

Christ!! I hope they're not planning a vast palace in the middle of Newcastle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,