Newcastle Finances in the Championship

[Toonpack 7246]

How are you two not bored of this? It's like watching a couple of retards play swingball.

 

I find it great fun tbh

 

As for the retard remark, I use substantive facts, he's the one who dribbles

[Dafydd 0]

Why dont Ant and Dec put their hands in their pockets and help you guys out. Big Ash has speant enough and hes a cockney ffs. Ant and Dec say they are true Newcastle Utd fans but they are tight twats that never put their hand in their pockets.

[Gemmill 36826]

Why dont Ant and Dec put their hands in their pockets and help you guys out. Big Ash has speant enough and hes a cockney ffs. Ant and Dec say they are true Newcastle Utd fans but they are tight twats that never put their hand in their pockets.

 

Haha Jimmy Tarbuck and Cilla Black smell heehee.

[LeazesMag 0]

Why dont Ant and Dec put their hands in their pockets and help you guys out. Big Ash has speant enough and hes a cockney ffs. Ant and Dec say they are true Newcastle Utd fans but they are tight twats that never put their hand in their pockets.

 

haha you're a funny guy

[LeazesMag 0]

We'll see European football again a LOT quicker under Ashley than we EVER would have under continued ownership of FFS/Halls, because we'd be SKINT (er) man !! and you can include the 4 years he's had repairing the damage in that an all (if he wasn't such a prick himself it'd probably have only taken 3 years).

 

They've done you like a kipper man.

 

They had no intention of staying "for the club", they'd milked it dry, they spent money the year before trying to get rid because the £4 mill dividends had gone for ever and god forbid they'd have to risk any of their own cash/assets.

 

we won't see champions league / european football under Mike Ashley son, never. You don't qualify for europe when you are involved in relegation fights.

 

I'm quite happy with forking out over the years to watch champions league, european football and top quality international footballers thanks, along with 30,000 other supporters who were all attracted back to the club by it, if thats what you call "done", then lets have some more

 

What a shame a lot of those 30,000 are now starting to fall by the wayside again, like You I suspect.

 

Your blind hatred is astounding. What was it you said "enjoy today while it happens and why worry about something which may or may not happen tomorrow"..... Your hypocrisy knows no standards. You're a prize idiot. I thought the view from Brighton Grove [or Barrack Road] would be better than that.

 

 

You get all the drivel you spout from the skunkers "bunker" and 90 year old blokes in the CIU clubs don't you

Edited April 7, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 7246]

We'll see European football again a LOT quicker under Ashley than we EVER would have under continued ownership of FFS/Halls, because we'd be SKINT (er) man !! and you can include the 4 years he's had repairing the damage in that an all (if he wasn't such a prick himself it'd probably have only taken 3 years).

 

They've done you like a kipper man.

 

They had no intention of staying "for the club", they'd milked it dry, they spent money the year before trying to get rid because the £4 mill dividends had gone for ever and god forbid they'd have to risk any of their own cash/assets.

 

we won't see champions league / european football under Mike Ashley son, never. You don't qualify for europe when you are involved in relegation fights.

 

I'm quite happy with forking out over the years to watch champions league, european football and top quality international footballers thanks, along with 30,000 other supporters who were all attracted back to the club by it, if thats what you call "done", then lets have some more

 

What a shame a lot of those 30,000 are now starting to fall by the wayside again, like You I suspect.

 

Your blind hatred is astounding. What was it you said "enjoy today while it happens and why worry about something which may or may not happen tomorrow"..... Your hypocrisy knows no standards. You're a prize idiot. I thought the view from Brighton Grove [or Barrack Road] would be better than that.

 

 

You get all the drivel you spout from the skunkers "bunker" and 90 year old blokes in the CIU clubs don't you

 

 

Hevan't been in a CIU club in about 15 years

 

What's your barrack/brighton grove/road fixation man

 

I don't hate anyone dimwit.

 

Maybe we won't see Champs League/Euro football under Ashley, we sure as hell were never going to see it again under the previous mob.

[LeazesMag 0]

We'll see European football again a LOT quicker under Ashley than we EVER would have under continued ownership of FFS/Halls, because we'd be SKINT (er) man !! and you can include the 4 years he's had repairing the damage in that an all (if he wasn't such a prick himself it'd probably have only taken 3 years).

 

They've done you like a kipper man.

 

They had no intention of staying "for the club", they'd milked it dry, they spent money the year before trying to get rid because the £4 mill dividends had gone for ever and god forbid they'd have to risk any of their own cash/assets.

 

we won't see champions league / european football under Mike Ashley son, never. You don't qualify for europe when you are involved in relegation fights.

 

I'm quite happy with forking out over the years to watch champions league, european football and top quality international footballers thanks, along with 30,000 other supporters who were all attracted back to the club by it, if thats what you call "done", then lets have some more

 

What a shame a lot of those 30,000 are now starting to fall by the wayside again, like You I suspect.

 

Your blind hatred is astounding. What was it you said "enjoy today while it happens and why worry about something which may or may not happen tomorrow"..... Your hypocrisy knows no standards. You're a prize idiot. I thought the view from Brighton Grove [or Barrack Road] would be better than that.

 

 

You get all the drivel you spout from the skunkers "bunker" and 90 year old blokes in the CIU clubs don't you

 

 

Hevan't been in a CIU club in about 15 years

 

What's your barrack/brighton grove/road fixation man

 

I don't hate anyone dimwit.

 

Maybe we won't see Champs League/Euro football under Ashley, we sure as hell were never going to see it again under the previous mob.

 

YOU said you live a stones throw away from SJP.

 

YOU said "why worry about tomorrow, enjoy today and don't worry about something which may or may not happen"

 

YOU have insisted that the club "is better with Ashley than with the Halls and Shepherd", so when will he match them ?

 

YOU have just said above that we will qualify for europe, then in the next post say that we "maybe won't"

 

 

You also make up a game in the 1970's, which you said had been "your most memorable" which had never taken place

 

Anyway....here is an extract from a book called "Why England lose, and other curious football phenomena explained", I don't suppose you will have the brainpower to understand, you probably won't even attempt to do that or even read it, because it doesn't castigate Big Bad Fred for anything and accepting its findings and factual statements flies in the face of your total paranioa of your perception of the ex owners.

 

"On 15th September 2008, the investment bank Lehman brothers collapsed, followed almost immediately by the worlds stock markets. Any football club on earth was a midget next to Lehman. In the year to September 2007, the bank had income of $59 billion (148 times Manchester Uniteds at the time), profits of $6 billion (50 times Man U's) and was valued by the stock market at $34 billion. If Manu shares had still been traded on the market, they would probably have been worth less than 5 per cent of Lehmans. Yet Lehman no longer exists while ManU very much do,

.

 

Over the past decade, people worried a lot more about the survival of football clubs than of banks. Yet it was many of the worlds largest banks that disappeared. The public perception that football clubs are inherently unstable businesses is wrong. Despite being incompetently run, they are some of the most stable businesses on earth.

 

First, some facts. In 1923 the Football League consisted of 88 teams spread over 4 divisions. In the 2007-08 season

 

1. 85 of these clubs still existed (97 per cent)

2. 75 remained in the top 4 divisions (85 per cent)

3. An actual majority, 48 clubs, were in the same division as they had been in 1923

4. Only 9 teams still in the top four divisions were 2 or more divisons away from where they had been in 1923 (one of them, Notts County, had sunk from first to fourth tier)

 

So almost every professional club in England had survived the Great Depression, the 2nd World War, recessions, corrupt chairman and appalling managers. It is a history of remarkable stability. For comparison, the economic historian, Les Hannah, made a list of the top 100 companies in 1912, and researched what had became of them by 1995. Nearly half the companies - 49 - had ceased to exist. Five had gone bankrupt, Six were nationalised, and 37 were taken over by other firms. Even among the businesses that survived, many had gone into new sectors or moved to new locations."

Edited April 7, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 7246]

YOU said you live a stones throw away from SJP.

 

YOU said "why worry about tomorrow, enjoy today and don't worry about something which may or may not happen"

 

YOU have insisted that the club "is better with Ashley than with the Halls and Shepherd", so when will they match them.

 

YOU have just said above that we will qualify for europe, then in the next post say that we "maybe won't"

 

 

You also make up a game in the 1970's, which you said had been "your most memorable" which had never taken place

 

God you're thick.

 

Bold bit one, No I did not, I'd need the worlds biggest trebuchet to live a stones throw away. (I said 6 miles or within 6 miles or some such)

 

Bold bit two, Already more than matched in terms of funds into the club (in saying that even my mate from Chicago who bought himself a glass and T shirt at the club shop has exceeded the FFS/Halls investment), finishing 10th or above, year on year will match/beat their average league position (FACT).

 

Bold bit three, I said we will qualify a darn sight sooner under Ashley than we ever would under the continued reign of FFS/SJH

 

Bold bit four, you used that phrase ad nauseum, I didn't, not once. (p.s. I got the score wrong, big deal !! It was 30-odd years ago, If you want to play silly games - hey at least I remembered the right opposition for your "best ever Newcastle Player" testimonial)

 

re the book bit. Of course the clubs haven't gone "pop", That's because their debt is in the main underwritten by owners/benefactors. Ours wasn't (it is now) see Pompey for a club without a rich benefactor and third party/financial institution debt in excess of it's assets - like we were.

[LeazesMag 0]

denial of the 5 points I've raised. Why am I not surprised.

 

And no comment about the findings of the facts of the book. Also I am not surprised in the slightest.

 

How sad.

 

Put up something factual to discuss, and all Toonpack can do in reply is wild speculation. "we WOULD get into europe under Ashley than we would before the old owners".....ho hum.

 

As Ashley thinks selling our best players and replacing them with inferior ones is the way to do it - I think not buddy boy.

 

Anyway, I'll leave others to comment intelligently on the clip from that book. Which is highly recommended.

[Toonpack 7246]

denial of the 5 points I've raised. Why am I not surprised.

 

And no comment about the findings of the facts of the book. Also I am not surprised in the slightest.

 

How sad.

 

Put up something factual to discuss, and all Toonpack can do in reply is wild speculation. "we WOULD get into europe under Ashley than we would before the old owners".....ho hum.

 

As Ashley thinks selling our best players and replacing them with inferior ones is the way to do it - I think not buddy boy.

 

Anyway, I'll leave others to comment intelligently on the clip from that book. Which is highly recommended.

 

 

After 36 minutes of searching to try and find the things you say I said but didn't, THAT is the best you can come up with

 

Erm, I did comment on the book bit and "Erm part deaux" the bold bit, now that is irony cubed, like the "factual" statements you made about things you said I said but I actually didn't and you spent 36 minute's searching for and couldn't find. Marvelous

 

You asked my opinion on what I thought the future holds and I responded

[Gemmill 36826]

Have you seen the weather? Go and have a walk or something ffs.

[Toonpack 7246]

Have you seen the weather? Go and have a walk or something ffs.

 

 

Nowt like a good bicker man !! Although I suppose I could be classed as mocking the aflicted.

[LeazesMag 0]

denial of the 5 points I've raised. Why am I not surprised.

 

And no comment about the findings of the facts of the book. Also I am not surprised in the slightest.

 

How sad.

 

Put up something factual to discuss, and all Toonpack can do in reply is wild speculation. "we WOULD get into europe under Ashley than we would before the old owners".....ho hum.

 

As Ashley thinks selling our best players and replacing them with inferior ones is the way to do it - I think not buddy boy.

 

Anyway, I'll leave others to comment intelligently on the clip from that book. Which is highly recommended.

 

 

After 36 minutes of searching to try and find the things you say I said but didn't, THAT is the best you can come up with

 

Erm, I did comment on the book bit and "Erm part deaux" the bold bit, now that is irony cubed, like the "factual" statements you made about things you said I said but I actually didn't and you spent 36 minute's searching for and couldn't find. Marvelous

 

You asked my opinion on what I thought the future holds and I responded

 

you don't think we will qualify for europe ie match the Halls and Shepherd ? Or you do ?

 

All I can see is evasive drivel.

 

And NO constructive comments about that book whatsoever, but I expected that, same as none of the imbeciles on skunkers will either. Is this head up your arse and irrational hatred of the people who gave us the only team that challenged at the top of the league for over half a century catching ?

 

Anyway, thats it. This time. I half wondered if you would respond intelligently, but it was a forlorn hope.

[Toonpack 7246]

And NO constructive comments about that book whatsoever, but I expected that, same as none of the imbeciles on skunkers will either. Is this head up your arse and irrational hatred of the people who gave us the only team that challenged at the top of the league for over half a century catching ?

 

 

OK so the book extract.

 

Comparing football teams to the top 100 industrial businesses (in 1912) is ridiculous, in the depression through the 40's 50's and 60's even, clubs were run on a shoestring, players were tied to clubs for as long as a club wanted them, comparing clubs in those times (at any time tbh) to major businesses is HUGELY flawed. In 1912 a football club wouldn't have got into the top 10,000 companies list. They were "clubs" in the truest sense of the word.

 

Once a company "hits the wall", it's gone or swallowed up by a competitor, people don't care that their favourite brand of "a product" suddenly gets re-badged and called something else. Try that with a football team.

 

Football teams don't move into new "markets" and become a "something else" club and they don't take over the smaller fry on their patch.

 

The whole premise is preposterous.

 

It's like comparing Whitley Bay with Siemens.

 

Now today's a different kettle of fish and clubs whilst not dissappearing do go bust with monotonous regularity, no they don't "dissappear" or cease to exist but they do go into administration, get bought for coppers and continue. Well those one's without their debts underwritten by an owner/benefactor who can (and is willing to) afford it, do.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Toonpack

[LeazesMag 0]

oh dear.

 

Its a business when it suits you, and it isn't a business when it suits you.

 

You can't argue with such historical fact and pattern you idiot, its tracing the whole history and business concepts applied to football over 80 years.

 

You're fucking absurd. Your hatred is ridiculous. What a knacker.

 

I WILL leave this now.

[Toonpack 7246]

oh dear.

 

Its a business when it suits you, and it isn't a business when it suits you.

 

You can't argue with such historical fact and pattern you idiot, its tracing the whole history and business concepts applied to football over 80 years.

 

You're fucking absurd. Your hatred is ridiculous. What a knacker.

 

I WILL leave this now.

 

Historical fact and pattern ONLY stacks up if you compare like with like. Please disect with rebuttalls my post if you disagree with it (or this one for that matter).

 

Football was a game, it's only been a business since the Sky££££'s rolled in and it's a business with a core and captive customer base (per company) which will never leave.

 

A football club can serve up a shite product (in fact 99% of them do) and still the core "customers" stick by them.

 

Try being Mr Coca Cola and all of a sudden your plant starts putting a turd in every can or bottle, customers'll just fuck off to Pepsi, it's just not comparable.

 

Companies can become obsolete, football teams don't, you've just spent £10 Million on your new dogs bollocks shellack (sp?) plant for your gramaphone record producing customer and then some cunt goes and invents vynil.

 

etc etc etc

[LeazesMag 0]

I really wasn't going to come back to this...........but hasn't Toonpack been trying to say for fuck knows how long, that the club would have gone bust ? Now he is agreeing that football clubs don't go bust ?

 

Poor lad. What juice has he been on ? Is his hatred so deep he contradicts himself so blatantly as this ?

 

Deary deary me.

[Toonpack 7246]

I really wasn't going to come back to this...........but hasn't Toonpack been trying to say for fuck knows how long, that the club would have gone bust ? Now he is agreeing that football clubs don't go bust ?

 

Poor lad. What juice has he been on ? Is his hatred so deep he contradicts himself so blatantly as this ?

 

Deary deary me.

 

Context you muppet

 

Administration is the football "going bust", it happens all the time, the difference between that and a company (real commercial company) going bust and then ceasing to exist is chalk and cheese.

 

Commercial ventures that fail, often really do cease to exist, or at best come back branded as a "new" thing (if their assetts are taken over). A football club, if it goes bust ,but it's assets are taken over, comes back with the same name (brand). Thus "goes bust" but still exists.

 

Simple, no contradiction in my position at all. I despair I really do.

 

Go find another book built on a premise I can destroy please.

[LeazesMag 0]

I really wasn't going to come back to this...........but hasn't Toonpack been trying to say for fuck knows how long, that the club would have gone bust ? Now he is agreeing that football clubs don't go bust ?

 

Poor lad. What juice has he been on ? Is his hatred so deep he contradicts himself so blatantly as this ?

 

Deary deary me.

 

Context you muppet

 

Administration is the football "going bust", it happens all the time, the difference between that and a company (real commercial company) going bust and then ceasing to exist is chalk and cheese.

 

Commercial ventures that fail, often really do cease to exist, or at best come back branded as a "new" thing (if their assetts are taken over). A football club, if it goes bust ,but it's assets are taken over, comes back with the same name (brand). Thus "goes bust" but still exists.

 

Simple, no contradiction in my position at all. I despair I really do.

 

Go find another book built on a premise I can destroy please.

 

sigh.

 

However much you wildly speculate, based on your irrational hatred.

 

The club DID NOT go into administration while under the ownership of the Halls and Shepherd. Under their ownership, they SAVED it from administration and left it a million miles better off than how they found it, attracting back muppets like you, 30000 of you. It was PROMOTED to the premiership and had the best 15 years league positions in at least half a century, and qualified for europe more than any other club bar 4 in that 15 year period.

 

Since they sold it to your man, it has been RELEGATED, and dived down the football rich list. Ticket sales are down, shirt sales are down, sponsorships are down, revenue and interest is down, they are now being noted in the game as having made the club a selling club again, and they do not back their managers with the money brought in from selling our best players behind his back, and they are NOWHERE near qualifying for europe even once, after 4 years of taking over.

 

Now. This is NOT anything taken from a "book" [although the book is business facts, and you keep talking about the club in business terms] but is the facts of the football club. In footballing terms the team is nowhere near challenging to attain the positions reached by his predecessors, and as a business it is in decline in comparison to its competitors.

 

The sooner you get over your hatred, the more balanced person you may be. A lot of people on here are telling you how wrong you are, but you persist in this "alternative" view that you peddle for some reason.

 

I've asked you where you think the club will be in 5 years, a total of 9 years of Ashley. You do not answer. My view is the same as that which I have stated for over 3 years now, the club is in decline. It is accepting 2nd best. It will not even attempt to reach its potential. We will do nothing more than fight relegation battles under this man. Staying up will be considered success. He will continue to sell our best players, in an attempt to make up for the decline in revenues, which results in a further decline in interest and therefore revenues.

 

No point in asking if you understand, your hatred is so deep, you don't want to understand anything.

[ChezGiven 0]

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why...ll-clubs-common

[Toonpack 7246]

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why...ll-clubs-common

 

That would have saved me a lot of typing

[peasepud 59]

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why...ll-clubs-common

 

That would have saved me a lot of typing

Hold on, those articles dont say anything to back up your argument that we would have gone bust, yes lots do it but as many have pointed out its irrelevant to assume we would have if fatty Ash hadnt ridden in on his white shirehorse, in fact the first one points out that our chances of going into Administration have increased dramatically because we were purchased by him and led into relegation.

 

Feel free to explain to me how that backs up your Ashley/Shep argument like.

[Toonpack 7246]

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why...ll-clubs-common

 

That would have saved me a lot of typing

Hold on, those articles dont say anything to back up your argument that we would have gone bust, yes lots do it but as many have pointed out its irrelevant to assume we would have if fatty Ash hadnt ridden in on his white shirehorse, in fact the first one points out that our chances of going into Administration have increased dramatically because we were purchased by him and led into relegation.

 

Feel free to explain to me how that backs up your Ashley/Shep argument like.

 

We were (well I was) discussing the premise of a book, (which was along the lines of Football clubs are the most stable "businesses on the planet" and used "real" commercial companies as the evidence to prove the point, that comparison is absurd) those articles are in line with my views on the debunking of said book. Nowt really to do with Halls/Shep. See posts #492 and #494.

 

As for the, "we're under greater threat of Admin now, because we were relegated". It's just not true, why? - because to counterbalance the consequences of relegation we had an immensly rich owner who could (and had the will to) mitigate the financial losses out of his own pocket. I accept that "the will to" was probably driven by the need to protect his investment, but clubs that don't have someone's deep pockets to draw on, do "go bust" (in the football sense). Of course if he withdrew (or couldn't afford) that backing we'd have been screwed.

 

That's why Premier League clubs don't go into admin (often) because they are, by and large, similarly backed or propped up, or at the very least institutional finance is guaranteed/underwritten by a backer, (where there's external finance NOT backed by a sugar-daddy, it's all secured against future revenue of some sort, transfer fees or TV dosh usually - we'd already done/maxed out on all that by 2007 BTW). Prem clubs virtually ALL live beyond their means and would be unsustainable if they had to live off themselves with no outside subsidy/guarantee.

 

Levy (Spurs) is making noises in an article this morning about "cutting the cloth" (heard mention on t'radio). Their main backer (Johnson) lost £500 mill in the banking debacle, so it looks like he's not going to dip in further (even though he's still worth about £2Billion), Harry's already trying to rack up the price on Bale "Cor blimey, he's not for sale but if he was to go it'd take £80 million quid, me old cock sparra" Or words to that effect.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Toonpack

[LeazesMag 0]

sigh.

 

At the end of the day, we DIDN'T go into administration under the Halls and Shepherd. We were SAVED from administration by them when they took over.

 

We WERE NOT relegated under them either. We WERE, however promoted and established ourselves as one of the top clubs in the country.

 

However, under Mike Ashley, we WERE relegated. And under Mike Ashley, the club HAS gone down in the football rich list, and the club HAS lost supporters, and it HAS sold its best players behind its managers back and HAS NOT gave the money back to the manager in full to replace adequately and help him to try and put a better team together out of it.

 

Why not leave personalities out of this ? [Fat chance.....]

 

How sad.

[LeazesMag 0]

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/...maps-and-stats/

 

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/why...ll-clubs-common

 

That would have saved me a lot of typing

Hold on, those articles dont say anything to back up your argument that we would have gone bust, yes lots do it but as many have pointed out its irrelevant to assume we would have if fatty Ash hadnt ridden in on his white shirehorse, in fact the first one points out that our chances of going into Administration have increased dramatically because we were purchased by him and led into relegation.

 

Feel free to explain to me how that backs up your Ashley/Shep argument like.

 

We were (well I was) discussing the premise of a book, (which was along the lines of Football clubs are the most stable "businesses on the planet" and used "real" commercial companies as the evidence to prove the point, that comparison is absurd) those articles are in line with my views on the debunking of said book. Nowt really to do with Halls/Shep. See posts #492 and #494.

 

As for the, "we're under greater threat of Admin now, because we were relegated". It's just not true, why? - because to counterbalance the consequences of relegation we had an immensly rich owner who could (and had the will to) mitigate the financial losses out of his own pocket. I accept that "the will to" was probably driven by the need to protect his investment, but clubs that don't have someone's deep pockets to draw on, do "go bust" (in the football sense). Of course if he withdrew (or couldn't afford) that backing we'd have been screwed.

 

That's why Premier League clubs don't go into admin (often) because they are, by and large, similarly backed or propped up, or at the very least institutional finance is guaranteed/underwritten by a backer, (where there's external finance NOT backed by a sugar-daddy, it's all secured against future revenue of some sort, transfer fees or TV dosh usually - we'd already done/maxed out on all that by 2007 BTW). Prem clubs virtually ALL live beyond their means and would be unsustainable if they had to live off themselves with no outside subsidy/guarantee.

 

Levy (Spurs) is making noises in an article this morning about "cutting the cloth" (heard mention on t'radio). Their main backer (Johnson) lost £500 mill in the banking debacle, so it looks like he's not going to dip in further (even though he's still worth about £2Billion), Harry's already trying to rack up the price on Bale "Cor blimey, he's not for sale but if he was to go it'd take £80 million quid, me old cock sparra" Or words to that effect.

 

oh dear.

 

The lad is full of u-turns and confused to boot......wasn't our stadium "debts" secured against future revenues

 

Enjoy today Toonpack, why worry about tomorrow, and what may or may not happen eh ? If you don't enjoy champions league football and bringing top players to the club, what DO you enjoy. Hilarious.