Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I don't particularly want them to justify why she's all powerful. I know why Thor is all powerful. That doesn't make his narrative a compelling one. Both he and Rey have done nothing to earn their power, and as such, are not interesting. If the choice was between an all powerful man and an all powerful woman, then I agree. Choose the woman. It serves a political purpose and advances things that some people care about deeply. However, I have no interest in that choice. My concern is that they've chosen between a well written and flawed male character with a good character arc, and an all powerful woman because it successfully panders to the pious and righteous. I would have happily accepted a flawed female character in the same position. Hence, this could all be recovered for me, if she's being set up for a horrifying collapse into the seduction of the dark side it looks like she might be flawed character from the latest trailer. why does choosing her as lead pander to the the pious and righteous ffs? is it just because he's a woman? don't you hear how ridiculous that sounds? no internet dorks would have said shit if they'd cast a man in the same role. i'm intrigued by her power and want to find out more, and if she is tempted by the dark side, which looks like it might be on the cards. i honestly couldn't give a shit if they cast a woman ahead of a man in that sense. Edited October 10, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I've no issue with strong female leads in for instance the Nordic Noir 'The Bridge'. What I do find ridiculous is the cod insertion of identity politics into what are totemic sagas like Star Wars....And done badly with no depth, rhyme or reason. It's not good for the young snowflakes who grow up on this shit and then when they find themselves in their first job their self-identity is smashed because they realise they have been deluded by Disney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: it looks like she might be flawed character from the latest trailer. why does choosing her as lead pandering to the the pious and righteous ffs? don't you hear how ridiculous that sounds? no internet dorks would have said shit if they'd cast a man in the same role. i'm intrigued by her power and want to find out more, and if she is tempted by the dark side, which looks like it might be on the cards. i honestly couldn't give a shit if they cast a woman ahead of a man in that sense. You think she was chosen in a political vacuum then? That's fine, if so. I disagree but I may just be too cynical these days. Also, if they'd cast a man in the same role, I would have been even more disappointed by that film. Because that would have meant it was just written poorly by accident, instead of being written poorly for an actual purpose. If she turns to the dark side, the whole trilogy is saved, IMO. She can then go on to destroy the universe and castrate every man in it for all I care, at least she'll have an interesting character. In before KCG calls me a misogynist cunt, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Gender politics rears its ugly head again I see. I say that because all feminists are ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Park Life said: I've no issue with strong female leads in for instance the Nordic Noir 'The Bridge'. What I do find ridiculous is the cod insertion of identity politics into what are totemic sagas like Star Wars....And done badly with no depth, rhyme or reason. It's not good for the young snowflakes who grow up on this shit and then when they find themselves in their first job their self-identity is smashed because they realise they have been deluded by Disney. what a pile of shite man. cod insertion of identity politics ffs give me one reason why rey should have been a male lead rather than female, other than that it being convention in sci fi? they tried something different. good on them. the likes of sargon and the army of intenet dorks like him who've never been laid should stick to their comic books and video games. exactly the same reaction from this crowd when doctor was announced to be played by a female actor. small willy syndrome tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: what a pile of shite man. cod insertion of identity politics ffs give me one reason why rey should have been a male lead rather than female, other than that it being convention in sci fi? they tried something different. good on them. the likes of sargon and the army of intenet dorks like him who've never been laid should stick to their comic books and video games. exactly the same reaction from this crowd when doctor was announced to be played by a female actor. small willy syndrome tbh Just saying, but Sargon backed the female Dr. Who decision. I also don't recall him ever making a statement about Star Wars. His view was that the story permitted the possibility of a female Dr, so there was no issue in terms of consistency with the canon, and I genuinely don't think he gives a fuck about Star Wars. Assuming his position is consistent, there is no reason why he would have been able to oppose it, as there is no canon problem. (There was with Rogue One but don't worry, I got over it). Also, there is plenty of precedent for female lead characters in Sci Fi. What would perhaps be a more interesting avenue of discussion would be why do Parky and I believe that her selection and character design, -were- in fact as a result of pandering, rather than an entirely creatively driven process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It's well established that women have periods and this interferes with 'the force'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Rayvin said: Just saying, but Sargon backed the female Dr. Who decision. I also don't recall him ever making a statement about Star Wars. His view was that the story permitted the possibility of a female Dr, so there was no issue in terms of consistency with the canon, and I genuinely don't think he gives a fuck about Star Wars. Assuming his position is consistent, there is no reason why he would have been able to oppose it, as there is no canon problem. (There was with Rogue One but don't worry, I got over it). Also, there is plenty of precedent for female lead characters in Sci Fi. What would perhaps be a more interesting avenue of discussion would be why do Parky and I believe that her selection and character design, -were- in fact as a result of pandering, rather than an entirely creatively driven process. i just presumed that was his stance given how scared he is of feminists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Park Life said: It's well established that women have periods and this interferes with 'the force'. now we're getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: i just presumed that was his stance given how scared he is of feminists I know. I thought it might be helpful for you to know that there are actually arguments behind his positions, rather than just knee jerk reactions to everything. He's not always right, far from it in fact, but it's not always push back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: now we're getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: I know. I thought it might be helpful for you to know that there are actually arguments behind his positions, rather than just knee jerk reactions to everything. He's not always right, far from it in fact, but it's not always push back. i've seen enough of his videos to know what he's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Just now, Dr Gloom said: i've seen enough of his videos to know what he's about. As have I. EDIT - Man I love these sorts of discussion I didn't start this one fwiw. Edited October 10, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 You know it's a Mary Sue when the character has no flaws and their is no graduation path to self-discovery by trial and error of powers/skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 This is almost post for post what we argued about last time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 This is beyond parody like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I'm sorry, it's just that I can't recall ever worrying about what might happen to Thor in the same way that I might in films about other superheroes. Sure, he's a double hard bastard. But any jeopardy he faces will be tempered with the knowledge of the Superhero tropes. Sure he might be lying upon the ground, blood seeping from a wound but it's Spider Man, he takes a licking and just keeps ticking. I think the next Thor (Ragnarok) will ratchet up the threat to him. To be honest, he's a more interesting character in the comics, but that's possible to achieve over decades of comics, and not so easy when you're trying to sell toys and advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Sure, he's a double hard bastard. But any jeopardy he faces will be tempered with the knowledge of the Superhero tropes. Sure he might be lying upon the ground, blood seeping from a wound but it's Spider Man, he takes a licking and just keeps ticking. I think the next Thor (Ragnarok) will ratchet up the threat to him. To be honest, he's a more interesting character in the comics, but that's possible to achieve over decades of comics, and not so easy when you're trying to sell toys and advertising. I'm actually a bit surprised you're genuinely invested in this character, as I really don't see his appeal - as such, I suppose you must be right about the comics building up a lot of background context that I'm ultimately not privy to. So fair enough. Based on the films alone, he's an example of the same issue I have with Rey. Maybe if she had an expansive backstory in pre-existing canon, the issue wouldn't be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alex said: This is beyond parody like We'll be doing it again next year as well, you just know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/fucked-up-space-penguin-to-be-best-thing-about-new-star-wars-20171010137230 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I'm actually a bit surprised you're genuinely invested in this character, as I really don't see his appeal - as such, I suppose you must be right about the comics building up a lot of background context that I'm ultimately not privy to. So fair enough. Based on the films alone, he's an example of the same issue I have with Rey. Maybe if she had an expansive backstory in pre-existing canon, the issue wouldn't be there. Yeah, the comics gave you multiple examples of his arrogance and how he was ultimately neutered by his own hubris. Either in flashback, or in comics based in an earlier time. You got why Odin banished him to Earth, you get why he's always wanting to be thought "worthy" and why striving for that abstract quality with his power can make him a saviour or a tyrant... He's a self-destructive, petulant and flawed character who's reduced to Marvel's Superman for the sake of brevity in the films. Superman, now there's a Mary-Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 my 6 year old was loving it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: my 6 year old was loving it It's almost like they're made for kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Yeah, the comics gave you multiple examples of his arrogance and how he was ultimately neutered by his own hubris. Either in flashback, or in comics based in an earlier time. You got why Odin banished him to Earth, you get why he's always wanting to be thought "worthy" and why striving for that abstract quality with his power can make him a saviour or a tyrant... He's a self-destructive, petulant and flawed character who's reduced to Marvel's Superman for the sake of brevity in the films. Superman, now there's a Mary-Sue. I cannot stand Superman. Yeah I'm pretty consistent on this stuff it seems. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now