Player form...

[OTF 6274]

Ferguson is good to have as an impact sub. His effectiveness is muted to an extent when he is started. In attack he is better coming from a deeper defensive position, except defensively he is positionally quite poor so there-in lies the dilemma. He's not as effective playing as an actual side midfielder, perhaps he could work playing as a winger in a 4-3-3. Has to continue with the effective cameos in league games and solid performances in cup games to earn the right to start.

 

All of my observations are made with relatively limited exposure to seeing him play - as would be the case for anyone who has only watched our first team games (and one or two reserve matches).

 

Jonas has not been at his best for the last run of games, but people are so quick to forget... earlier in the season spare one game he was consistently amongst our top performers.

 

IMO our team is struggling from not having a set formation with well defined roles. We have Perch doing his best switching from fullback to holding midfield, likewise with Anita.. Jonas and Cabaye don't have the defined roles they once had - and IMO only Ben Arfa can perform favourably in a formation where the midfield can roam. Tiote has been mostly poor when he's played, which is not often enough. The stability that we had at the start of last season has not been there this year both in the personel and the structure, and they are logically the primary reasons why we've been quite laboured and haggard through many of our matches.

[StevenL 0]

The season is just 10 games old, some of the hysteria and pessimism on here is needless.

 

Just? That's a quater of the season gone.

[Gejon 2]

Just? That's a quater of the season gone.

 

and we are going along nicely in Europe and are in a decent position in the league.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Exactly. We're still at the stage of the season where plenty of things are still up in the air as it were.

[StevenL 0]

Up in the air? Man U, Man City and Chelsea going for the title, Reading QPR, Southampton, Wigan, Stoke, Norwich fighting relegation. Things seem to be falling into place this stage of the season.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Are you looking for an argument or something (I'm not)?

 

You said it yourself, we're a quarter into the season. We've been solid if unspectacular thus far. Only 3 points off the top 4 and we've not even played a full 90 minutes of decent football yet. There is plenty of time to improve (or regress!) on things, have a more settled starting 11 etc. So I'm not feeling the need myself to be too pessimistic about anything.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Monroe Transfer

[StevenL 0]

I'm not even sure what the point I'm trying to make here is

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I'm not even sure what the point I'm trying to make here is

 

The point it looked as though you were making is that quarter of a way into the season it looks as though we can't find a shape or style of play.

 

We are playing some of the most turgid football seen at SJP in recent years and have Cisses arse and dodgy officials at everton to thank for us not being 3 or 4 points off a relegation place.

 

The worry that some of us have is that there are no signs of it coming right.

[Gejon 2]

The point it looked as though you were making is that quarter of a way into the season it looks as though we can't find a shape or style of play.

 

We are playing some of the most turgid football seen at SJP in recent years and have Cisses arse and dodgy officials at everton to thank for us not being 3 or 4 points off a relegation place.

 

The worry that some of us have is that there are no signs of it coming right.

 

Ridiculous. On the same note you could say we could be 4 points better off if players weren't sent off against Sunderland (never a red) or Liverpool (a normally calm player having a mad moment) and that's ignoring the fact that 3 key players have barely managed to play half our games together.

 

It hasn't been perfect but some (like you) need to be able to understand there is a middle ground and it's not just crisis or brilliant.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

 

Ridiculous. On the same note you could say we could be 4 points better off if players weren't sent off against Sunderland (never a red) or Liverpool (a normally calm player having a mad moment) and that's ignoring the fact that 3 key players have barely managed to play half our games together.

 

It hasn't been perfect but some (like you) need to be able to understand there is a middle ground and it's not just crisis or brilliant.

 

Ridiculous?

 

The first two paragraphs are factual statements. Only the last is opinion and its an opinion shared by most inside SJP.

[Happy Face 29]

Factual? in my opinion, one of our better assets is how we have kept our shape and been difficult to break down. None of the 5 goal wallopings we saw frequently last year.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Factual? in my opinion, one of our better assets is how we have kept our shape and been difficult to break down. None of the 5 goal wallopings we saw frequently last year.

 

What tripe. If you want to compare this year with last year then do it in your usual scientific manner not clap trap about random results.

 

This time last year we had won 7 and lost 0 compared to this year where we have won 3 and lost 2

We had a goal difference of +9 compared to -2

Even if we win on Saturday we will still be 8 points worse off than this time last year.

 

So its a given that we are shit compared to last years team that featured great footballers such as Ryan Taylor, Shola, Leon Best, Obertan et al.

 

We then have to hope that we somehow go on the same fantastic run we went on towards the end of last season, while making up the points we're already chasing!

 

I think its fairly within the realms of normality to be concerned out our results compared to last year. Worse results, worse defending and no sign so far of it coming together.

[Alex 30656]

I'm not exactly panic stricken because I thought last year was a bit of a freak and only bringing in a few more players was likely to sustain our position but I think that's, while perhaps a touch OTT, not far off the mark, CT. I still think something like 6th place is very achievable however. Which is all Ashley is aiming for basically (at best, all things being equal).

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I'm not exactly panic stricken because I thought last year was a bit of a freak and only bringing in a few more players was likely to sustain our position but I think that's, while perhaps a touch OTT, not far off the mark, CT. I still think something like 6th place is very achievable however. Which is all Ashley is aiming for basically (at best, all things being equal).

 

Tbh Alex Im not greatly fussed where we finish within reason, Im more pissed off that I think an opportunity to build on last year has been lost and this turgid football will have quite a few of our better footballers, like Cabaye, heading for the exits asap.

 

Ashley takes a share of the blame on the squad front but Pardew more so as I think he is making us far too over cautious and almost sending us out scared. I feel a braver manager, not gung ho, would have tweaked the team better and leant more towards our skilful attacking strengths.

 

Hope Im wrong but it looks like the beginning of the end of what "could have been" to me.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[Alex 30656]

Tbh Alex Im not greatly fussed where we finish within reason, Im more pissed off that I think an opportunity to build on last year has been lost and this turgid football will have quite a few of our better footballers, like Cabaye, heading for the exits asap.

 

Ashley takes a share of the blame on the squad front but Pardew more so as I think he is making us far too over cautious and almost sending us out scared. I feel a braver manager, not gung ho, would have tweaked the team better and leant more towards our skilful attacking strengths.

 

Hope Im wrong but it looks like the beginning of the end of what "could have been" to me.

Largely agree but I blame Ashley more. To use a well-worn phrase he didn't 'back his manager' adequately and Pardew's performance last season deserved to be supported with more signings. I also think a lot of it is down to the Ba situation and keeping him happy. I don't really blame Pardew for that though. He didn't negotiate the contract with the clause and Pardew is also in a tight spot because he knows that if Ba leaves in January he's unlikely to get the funds needed to replace him properly (given how little a sale would raise) plus the already badly needed areas where we need to strengthen. The manager is having to do his job with one hand tied behind his back so I see him as trying to be progmatic rather than being a coward. Agree about certain players looking to leave if we don't build upon what we've done in the last couple of years. That said, he might splash the cash in January since players will have 6 months less on their contracts etc. So long as the deal is what he considers 'good value'.

[Happy Face 29]

What tripe. If you want to compare this year with last year then do it in your usual scientific manner not clap trap about random results.

 

This time last year we had won 7 and lost 0 compared to this year where we have won 3 and lost 2

We had a goal difference of +9 compared to -2

Even if we win on Saturday we will still be 8 points worse off than this time last year.

 

So its a given that we are shit compared to last years team that featured great footballers such as Ryan Taylor, Shola, Leon Best, Obertan et al.

 

We then have to hope that we somehow go on the same fantastic run we went on towards the end of last season, while making up the points we're already chasing!

 

I think its fairly within the realms of normality to be concerned out our results compared to last year. Worse results, worse defending and no sign so far of it coming together.

 

There's nothing scientific in comparing the first 10 games of two seasons. They are by design random fixtures thrown out by a computer and this season the random games thrown out have been tougher than last year.

 

The results and performances at Tottenham, Wigan, Fulham, Norwich, Liverpool and Everton last year were shambolic or close to it. We totally fell to pieces repeatedly and had to cut that out. On the road this season we haven't lost to anyone other than second place. This despite not having our spine of Krul-Colo-Tiote in 90% of games...and having one of those key players sent off in a couple of games. The fact we could still ride out results in those games suggests we've cut out that panic mode in our game.

 

The fact we've not lost a game at home to anyone but the team in first, winning all but one of the rest, suggests to me you're talking bollocks.

 

I agree, we're largely shite to watch going forward....but to repeat myself, we were last year too. We just got the rub of the green a hilarious amount last term.

 

You've got our goal difference wrong. it was +8, but that was predicated on a very mean defence rather than attacking verve. The goals for is more important to your argument...and we've scored 12 goals. We'd scored 12 goals after 9 games last year too. The 3 goals in the next game against Stoke took us to 15. It's a VERY similar record.

[BigWalrus 0]

I'm not panicking. We started poorly last season too.

 

All we need to do is ensure we're firmly in the chasing pack (behind Man Utd and Man City) meaning that if we hit form, we can pull away. Once we get something resembling our first choice XI together and also manage to coax some form out of Cisse, I'm convinced that we'll hit form.

 

The rest of the league are all drawing with each other / taking turns to beat each other. Despite our iffy form, we're still in a canny position in the league.

 

We're still on course for a finish between 4th and 8th, which is within my expectations. As an added bonus, we're not doing too shabbily in the Europa League either.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I'm not panicking. We started poorly last season too.

 

 

 

EH?

[Alex 30656]

Aye, I wondered about that like. After 10 games last season we were 3rd and unbeaten in the league.

[BigWalrus 0]

Aye, I wondered about that like. After 10 games last season we were 3rd and unbeaten in the league.

 

Not in terms of points, in terms of general playing style. We weren't playing well. We were scraping results.

Edited November 8, 2012 by BigWalrus

[Alex 30656]

I think we played better and looked more solid like, especially in those first 10 games or so. Purely subjective though tbf, unlike the league position and results which were clearly any but representative of a poor start. I take your point though, in that were perhaps riding our luck at times.

[BigWalrus 0]

To put some meat on the bones, have a look at our games in the first few months of last season.

 

For West Brom at home this season - read Wigan at home last season.

 

Mackems away was similar last year except we held out last season, but otherwise a fairly similar performance.

 

QPR away was awful last season.

 

Wolves had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the last minute which would have denied us all three points.

 

 

All I'm saying is that the performances aren't really that different from last season's first few months. Take off a couple of jammy moments in those games (like QPR missing sitter after sitter, Wolves having a goal chalked off, Rodalegga missing 3 one on ones at home Wigan) and the points aren't even that far off.

 

Things went our way in the first few months of the season - big style.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

To put some meat on the bones, have a look at our games in the first few months of last season.

 

For West Brom at home this season - read Wigan at home last season.

 

Mackems away was similar last year except we held out last season, but otherwise a fairly similar performance.

 

QPR away was awful last season.

 

Wolves had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the last minute which would have denied us all three points.

 

 

All I'm saying is that the performances aren't really that different from last season's first few months. Take off a couple of jammy moments in those games (like QPR missing sitter after sitter, Wolves having a goal chalked off, Rodalegga missing 3 one on ones at home Wigan) and the points aren't even that far off.

 

Things went our way in the first few months of the season - big style.

 

But,

 

Its also worth bearing in mind we were without Ben Arfa, without Cisse, and instead relying on Ryan Taylor, Obertan, Best, Lovenkrands etc.

 

Im sure we all hoped that keeping the same team together and a year down the line we would have now found a style and play that looked decent. I certainly didnt expect to be seeing dross performances week in, week out.

[Alex 30656]

Like I said, I take your point but when the ifs and buts start extending into several games then the argument becomes a lot less water-tight imo. Last season by this stage it started to become clear there was a hell of a lot more to our good start than luck imo. I know we didn't play Man Utd in the first 10 games last season but comparing this season to last season re: that fixture puts the stark contrast into focus too. Also agree with CT about lacking shape and a pattern of play and we're by no means the only people to pick up on it.

Putting aside cold hard facts, stats etc. though it just feels a bit disjointed and lacking in flow this year whereas you could see where we were going last year. I'm not laying the blame at Pardew's door though as I've stated - bad luck with injuries etc. and inadequate additions to the squad have stitched him up.

[BigWalrus 0]

But,

 

Its also worth bearing in mind we were without Ben Arfa, without Cisse, and instead relying on Ryan Taylor, Obertan, Best, Lovenkrands etc.

 

Im sure we all hoped that keeping the same team together and a year down the line we would have now found a style and play that looked decent. I certainly didnt expect to be seeing dross performances week in, week out.

 

All true - but we've also been without Tiote and Coloccini for much of the start this year, we've been without Krul for a canny few games and we've had the burden of extra Europa League games to contend with.

 

Once Tiote and Coloccini have finished their self inflicted bans, I'd hope we will be able to get a bit of a run going. Our first XI is superb, but we've had a real issue in getting them all together at any point so far this season.