Happy Face 29 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 he's gash though isn't he? in the league at least. how many good games has he had? one maybe? I think so. But CT has a tendency to fantasize about what the players on the bench could be doing. He's spot on about our wingers and their balls into the box. Ben Arfa and Gutierrez have managed only 5 successful crosses each in 10 games. tied on 0.006 per minute. It's a lower rate than Obertan, Cabaye, Ferguson, Marveaux and Anita. The problem is those players (especially Obertan and Ferguson) tend come on at the end of games against tired opposition and get some crosses in. CT sees this ability against lesser opponents as proof positive they'd be an improvement on the players in our first 11. But when they start games we see differently. They don't have the heart, the strength or the skill to keep the ball for Newcastle and ensure we aren't overrun by a fresh, physical, fast team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The managers job should be to utilise his squad to win games. Imo Pardew has been found out so far this season as a coward. Given three straight assists from Ferguson he should leave him at left back, move Santon to right back, (where he looked decent) and given us the opportunity to create from both flanks. Obertan ahead of Ferguson and Santon and Ben Arfa on the right would terrorise defences, leave gaping holes all over midfield for Cabaye and Tiote to control and create chances galore for the strikers. Honestly I have to stop discussing this as its pissing me off Ferguson at left back (against Man Utd) was possibly the weakest defensive performance since Danny Simpson at Anfield last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There's also a huge difference between the quality and style of football in the Europa League to the Premier League. Obertan in particular has shown this, as he's allowed far more time on the ball in Europe and he has looked a better player because of it, yet in the Premiership he's looked nothing like that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Of all the players in our squad who would fit the left side of a 4-3-3 it's Sammy Ameobi but I don't think he's quite ready just yet or if he'll be good enough long term. Think Ferguson is better deployed deeper as he gets more space to put in those crosses of his that are so successful from deep. Whereas Sammy is better operating in limited space due to his trickey feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31095 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There's a case for playing Ferguson at left-back (where I think he has a future) and Santon on the right against sides who come to SJP to defend but the young kid was stitched up a bit by being asked to play there against Man Utd I thought. Obertan is at best a bit-part player / impact sub / one for the cup games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think Ferguson with his three assists and Obertan with his fine display against Bordeaux, have shown what we are missing on the left. Ferguson has one assist in the league. He came on with 20 minutes left against Reading and put in a good cross. Obertan has no assists in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 There's also a huge difference between the quality and style of football in the Europa League to the Premier League. Obertan in particular has shown this, as he's allowed far more time on the ball in Europe and he has looked a better player because of it, yet in the Premiership he's looked nothing like that player. Very true. Plus, the game has moved on from having wingers belting up and down whipping crosses in. Very few top sides will play with two wingers consistently, as it’s so easy to then over run them in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think its more a case that nobody has a really good, fast winger who can deliver an accurate cross with consistency. If they did, they'd play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Valencia's probably the best in the league at playing that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I think its more a case that nobody has a really good, fast winger who can deliver an accurate cross with consistency. If they did, they'd play them. Yet we have a lad who can deliver an accurate cross with consistency and don't play him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Who? Ferguson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3667 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Valencia's probably the best in the league at playing that role. By miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9340 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Love how CT completely ignores HF valid point and tries to argue with sniffer instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Who? Ferguson? Yeah, he has consistently showed the ability to do this in the four starts he's made in three seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't dislike Ferguson. He just appears a bit lightweight at times but he can deliver a telling ball. Gutierrez needs to ask him how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 People need to look at the work rate Jonas puts in. He never gives up. Granted he's no Mr whizz at crossing but his contribution is a key issue as to why we are regarded as a top 6 team now. Take him out of the team and you need someone with a similar engine who can also cross a ball into the box...Ferguson for all he can cross a ball, cannot last a full game by doing the rest of what Jonas does. Infact, not many players could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Love how CT completely ignores HF valid point and tries to argue with sniffer instead. Nice try What was HF's valid point? Looked liked he tried to contradict my valid point and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9340 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Nice try What was HF's valid point? Looked liked he tried to contradict my valid point and failed. Ferguson has one assist in the league. He came on with 20 minutes left against Reading and put in a good cross. Obertan has no assists in the league. In other words the players you wank over aren't necessarily good enough for the Premier League and they've not shown enough in the other competitions to merit their inclusion in the first team, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The biggest problem this season is that the turgid football we are playing will ensure the better players will be heading for the lifeboats ASAP. Pardew is steadily wasting a very good platform. Team Negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 In other words the players you wank over aren't necessarily good enough for the Premier League and they've not shown enough in the other competitions to merit their inclusion in the first team, yet. Don't talk shite man. Three assists, three games in a row is showing enough! If it had been Sameobi there would be an absolute wankfest taking place. It's a fucking no brainer! We create nothing on the left via Jonas yet these two between them have given us 4 assists and a goal in recent weeks. A brave manager would see the solution and attack. A cowardly manager persists with Jonas and relies on a mid hit shot off Cisses arse to save us against West Brom. Any way enough is enough. I'm getting worked up again. Over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9340 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Don't talk shite man. Three assists, three games in a row is showing enough! If it had been Sameobi there would be an absolute wankfest taking place. It's a fucking no brainer! We create nothing on the left via Jonas yet these two between them have given us 4 assists and a goal in recent weeks. A brave manager would see the solution and attack. A cowardly manager persists with Jonas and relies on a mid hit shot off Cisses arse to save us against West Brom. Any way enough is enough. I'm getting worked up again. Over and out. Behave yourself man, you're throwing emotive terms like "brave" and "coward" and all that shit, but honestly, you know damned well, it's got nowt to do with any of that. You're just throwing your toys out the pram because your most favouritest player isn't playing and the worstest man you hatey watey woo woo is. Jonas provides a much needed service and given his service to the club over the years he's earned his place ahead of a neophyte and a headless chicken. I mean jesus christ, do you honestly think Gabriel Obertan is a better option against the likes of Ivanovic or Richards? Is he bollocks. Has neither the pace nor trickery to get past them, he hasn't the composure to keep the ball, he hasn't the graft to win it back. Your problem is that you want to attack-attack-attack, but we'd lose more games than we won if we went off cavalier. You're just so blinded, you opinion loses all credence. Also, to answer your claims that if it was Sammy Ameobi we'd be clamoring for his inclusion. Well I know that I for one wouldn't be. Sammy's not ready yet, doesn't hold onto the ball and is prone to bad decisions imo. Fine when you're playing against Maritimo in the Europa, but suicidal if you're playing against anyone but Southampton in the Premier League. We're not good enough to have purely attacking players, maybe we would be if Tiote and Cabaye were on form. However they're not, so throwing an inexperienced kid into the bearpit that is the Premier League would be pointless. Again, it's got fuck all to do with tactics, chances or anything else. You're just so biased against Jonas you'd have a crippled toad on the wing ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12938 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Think there's a bit more to picking a winger than "He can whip a good ball in" like. It's not Sensible Soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12938 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm pretty sure when Jonas was playing well in the middle of a 4-3-3 last year, CT was still twisting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The season is just 10 games old, some of the hysteria and pessimism on here is needless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) and yet we played some of our best football last seaosn with him in the side. how do you explain that? He can't. To CT Gutierrez is this evil doer ("cancer of the team", a phrase so stupid it has floored me) and "Little Shane" is the team's saviour. Every problem we've had this season (we're a whole 3 points off the top four at the moment) is Pardew's fault and Jonas alone is the only player who makes us play such unsuccessful football (a disgraceful 3 defeats out of 14 matches played so far this year, not including EL qualifiers). The rest are golden and can do no wrong and Obertan is great because he resembled a footballer for once in 2 straightforward wins in Europe against clearly inferior opposition. Edited November 7, 2012 by Monroe Transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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