Aston Villa vs Newcastle United

[The Fish 9382]

Thing that sticks out for me, nobody doubted we'd do well with the 1st team, it's when we haven't got our 1st team that the criticism for Pardew will come thick and fast and when that happens it'll be hard to argue.

 

I think without Ben Arfa and one of the central players, our style will change and Pardew will nervously return to the longer balls because he hasn't faith in Marveaux or Obertan etc.

[acrossthepond 752]

It's hard to see past the 0-3 to Sunderland and the 0-6 to Liverpool. The utter lack of any effort in those games and the manager's feeble tactics were enough to turn people against him and the team - and I confess I was one of them, stating on here that it was time for Pardew to go following the loss to Liverpool.

 

Without the idiotic appointment of Kinnear, I imagine the summer of discontent re: Pardew would have continued, but the arrival of our director of fuck-all did enough to alleviate some of the pressure on the manager by way of sympathy to keep there from being any more trouble. Now he appears to be getting the team turned around with some positive displays and decent tactics and if it can continue, then support for him will continue.

 

I probably was wrong to want Pardew out at the end of last season, but judging him solely on the period following our win over Chelsea, he looked a man utterly out of his depth, with no plan B and no idea of how to dig us out of the hole we were in. He seemed unable to inspire any devotion from the players. I know part of that was down to a depleted squad, but I still worry that "that Pardew" lurks beneath the surface, and as soon as things get a little bumpy, he'll revert to type and we'll end up playing terrible football with an unmotivated squad.

[The Fish 9382]

The harshness of a football fan on a manager is something to behold.

 

Starting from after Pardew took us to fifth place, and most were satisfied to have him here, if not astounded by the quality of football.....

 

In the first 10 games of the following season, outside of the current top 6, nobody beat us. Only Chelsea and Man U could manage it.

 

In the last 15 games of that season, outside of the current top 6, only Sunderland Wigan and Swansea could beat us

 

It was the 13 games between that were a total catastrophe and which have seen all good will erased. We lost 10 of them. Fans are unforgiving of the fact we were playing games with Shane Ferguson, Sammy Ameobi, Danny Simpson and Mike Williamson. All 4 started against Swansea, as well as filling massive gaps regularly through that barren run.

 

We have not lost to any team outside the top 6 this season.

 

Still Pardew is on borrowed time with people who cannot see past that 13 game horror show.

Isn't that because he doesn't have a worthwhile plan B?

 

Dalglish & Redknapp picked their best players in their best positions and expected them to go out and do their job without further instruction. When the best players aren't available, they struggle to manipulate the formation/style to fit the squad players that are now in the team.

[Happy Face 29]

It's hard to see past the 0-3 to Sunderland and the 0-6 to Liverpool. The utter lack of any effort in those games and the manager's feeble tactics were enough to turn people against him and the team - and I confess I was one of them, stating on here that it was time for Pardew to go following the loss to Liverpool.

 

Without the idiotic appointment of Kinnear, I imagine the summer of discontent re: Pardew would have continued, but the arrival of our director of fuck-all did enough to alleviate some of the pressure on the manager by way of sympathy to keep there from being any more trouble. Now he appears to be getting the team turned around with some positive displays and decent tactics and if it can continue, then support for him will continue.

 

I probably was wrong to want Pardew out at the end of last season, but judging him solely on the period following our win over Chelsea, he looked a man utterly out of his depth, with no plan B and no idea of how to dig us out of the hole we were in. He seemed unable to inspire any devotion from the players. I know part of that was down to a depleted squad, but I still worry that "that Pardew" lurks beneath the surface, and as soon as things get a little bumpy, he'll revert to type and we'll end up playing terrible football with an unmotivated squad.

 

Liverpool top the league right now. They are a good side, and were a good side come the end of last season when they met us. Our trouncing came on the heels of them doing similar to Swansea & Norwich (5), Wigan & Fulham (4), QPR and Sunderland (3).

 

We capitulated embarrassingly, as we did against the Mackems too (high on their new manager bump), and those games should be seen by the players and management as examples of when it's been unacceptable. Leyton Orient type moments when they have to look at themselves and make changes. Signs so far have been of a positive reaction.

[Happy Face 29]

Isn't that because he doesn't have a worthwhile plan B?

 

Dalglish & Redknapp picked their best players in their best positions and expected them to go out and do their job without further instruction. When the best players aren't available, they struggle to manipulate the formation/style to fit the squad players that are now in the team.

 

That's what was pleasing about the villa game. Like for like changes, Anita out Tiote in. Remy out Gouffran in. Simple.

 

The problem comes when we lose Ben Arfa, or Coloccini and there just isn't the ability in the squad to cater to a loss like that. Pardew can't plant magic beans and create those players....nor would any other manager that comes in.

[The Fish 9382]

 

That's what was pleasing about the villa game. Like for like changes, Anita out Tiote in. Remy out Gouffran in. Simple.

 

The problem comes when we lose Ben Arfa, or Coloccini and there just isn't the ability in the squad to cater to a loss like that. Pardew can't plant magic beans and create those players....nor would any other manager that comes in.

 

No but other managers may be able to use the squad we have to play a different style?

 

fwiw I think that being 6 months behind everyone else in terms of recruitment may be saving us millions in fees, but it's costing us millions in final position and cup progress. Given we drop out of the cups before we strengthen we'll only really see benefits in the final half of the league season, which means(as I've said before) the difference between 14th and12th, instead of (say) 8th and 6th

[hostile_statue 0]

The harshness of a football fan on a manager is something to behold.

 

Starting from after Pardew took us to fifth place, and most were satisfied to have him here, if not astounded by the quality of football.....

 

In the first 10 games of the following season, outside of the current top 6, nobody beat us. Only Chelsea and Man U could manage it.

 

In the last 15 games of that season, outside of the current top 6, only Sunderland Wigan and Swansea could beat us

 

It was the 13 games between that were a total catastrophe and which have seen all good will erased. We lost 10 of them. Fans are unforgiving of the fact we were playing games with Shane Ferguson, Sammy Ameobi, Danny Simpson and Mike Williamson. All 4 started against Swansea, as well as filling massive gaps regularly through that barren run.

 

We have not lost to any team outside the top 6 this season.

 

Still Pardew is on borrowed time with people who cannot see past that 13 game horror show.

What is it that surprises you? "The harshness of a football fan on a manager is something to behold" Yes, that's the way it's always been, nothing new under the sun. Pardew is a special case though, in that he should never have been appointed Newcastle manager. Chris Hughton was very popular and did a great job, then out of the blue he gets the sack and is replaced by an Ashley yes man with a poor CV, and who's also a bit of a cunt. No wonder he was unpopular from the start.

 

Also no wonder we were content after the 2011-12 season, we finished 5th, literally no one was expecting that.

 

Then came the 2012-13 season, which was atrocius. It was actually an achievement in the negative sense finishing 16th with that team.

 

"We have not lost to any team outside the top 6 this season". We've played four games. We can't say anything about this season yet.

Edited September 17, 2013 by hostile_statue

[Renton 18555]

The harshness of a football fan on a manager is something to behold.

 

Starting from after Pardew took us to fifth place, and most were satisfied to have him here, if not astounded by the quality of football.....

 

In the first 10 games of the following season, outside of the current top 6, nobody beat us. Only Chelsea and Man U could manage it.

 

In the last 15 games of that season, outside of the current top 6, only Sunderland Wigan and Swansea could beat us

 

It was the 13 games between that were a total catastrophe and which have seen all good will erased. We lost 10 of them. Fans are unforgiving of the fact we were playing games with Shane Ferguson, Sammy Ameobi, Danny Simpson and Mike Williamson. All 4 started against Swansea, as well as filling massive gaps regularly through that barren run.

 

We have not lost to any team outside the top 6 this season.

 

Still Pardew is on borrowed time with people who cannot see past that 13 game horror show.

Love how you selectively exclude the best 30% teams in your stats, like it's impossible to beat them or even not lose to them. The only stats that matter to me are league points, league position, and cup performance. Last season was an abortion, simple as that. Not all Pardew's fault of course, but still, your defence is somewhat laughable in the face of hard facts that matter.

[Happy Face 29]

Love how you selectively exclude the best 30% teams in your stats, like it's impossible to beat them or even not lose to them. The only stats that matter to me are league points, league position, and cup performance. Last season was an abortion, simple as that. Not all Pardew's fault of course, but still, your defence is somewhat laughable in the face of hard facts that matter.

 

Don't exclude them then....

 

League points from the first 10 and last 15 games (25 games) = 34 (52 points if kept up all season - 8th place)

League points from the middle 13 games = 7 (20 points if kept up all season - bottom)

 

If you want to look at it simplistically and say the whole season was atrocious, feel free to drop the discussion, as everyone knows the season as a whole was not good enough.

 

I want to look closer at where the season went wrong though. It's as clear as the nose on my face that it went wrong once we accumulated a few injuries and had no cover of a high enough standard. A problem which we solved in January.

[Happy Face 29]

 

No but other managers may be able to use the squad we have to play a different style?

 

I don't see any style that makes a team starting Sammy Ameobi, Shane Ferguson, Danny Simpson and Mike Williamson anything other than relegation bait.

 

You can hoy Marveaux and Stevie Taylor in there too when they aren't the ONLY weak links in the team.

[McFaul 35]

The lack of credit the manager gets is criminal.

If he wasn't such a smarmy arrogant cunt then people would be a lot more willing to give him praise when we do well. His sickening over the top support (every single week) of his boss (a globally recognised cunt) beggars belief. Not one manager in the history of football has referred to a clubs finances as much as he does, and any redeeming features he may have will always be tarnished by his arselicking in my eyes.

[Renton 18555]

 

Don't exclude them then....

 

League points from the first 10 and last 15 games (25 games) = 34 (52 points if kept up all season - 8th place)

League points from the middle 13 games = 7 (20 points if kept up all season - bottom)

 

If you want to look at it simplistically and say the whole season was atrocious, feel free to drop the discussion, as everyone knows the season as a whole was not good enough.

 

I want to look closer at where the season went wrong though. It's as clear as the nose on my face that it went wrong once we accumulated a few injuries and had no cover of a high enough standard. A problem which we solved in January.

Were we good after January like? Without checking, my impression is we were shit, had two of our worst ever matches, and almost got relegated. I must have Alzheimer's or something.

[Happy Face 29]

Were we good after January like? Without checking, my impression is we were shit, had two of our worst ever matches, and almost got relegated. I must have Alzheimer's or something.

 

Occasionally we were good. More often we ground out results. Frequently we lapsed back to being atrocious.

 

P15 W6 D2 L7 Pts 20

 

That's 50 points a season form though, the sort of return that puts teams into 8th place.

 

It was the 13 games prior that saw us almost relegated.

[Christmas Tree 4005]

Pardew fucked up loads las season, shit loads.

 

Yes he could have better support in the summer but we still had a good enough squad not to play dog shit just missing relegation.

 

It was he who started the season with Cisse out wide to appease Ba. He spouted this week about not being able to play an attacking team since Ba left. He didnt leave til half way through the season.

 

His only tactics last season were praying Ben Arfa could pull him out the shit each match.

 

Then there's Jonas, persevering with this bloke when it was abundantly clear he offered little anymore.

 

Had he had any nouse, any tactics, any plan ab or c he would have continued with 443 and picked players on form to fit into the system rather than jumping from one formation to the other whilst refusing to drop his favourites.

 

The left wing has been a gaping hole for years and his only real answer was Jonas. While I agree he had tough games where he was for ed into lots of non first teamers eg Swansea, he also had plenty of opportunities to bring people in when the majority of the first choice 11 was fielded and he didn't.

 

I struggle to think of many times when he has dropped a "favourite" to bring in a squad player.

 

Just like this season Taylor, Jonas and Tiote have all exited the first 11 by random events, not Pardews will.

 

A defeat or two and he will revert to cowardly type.

 

[Christmas Tree 4005]

Occasionally we were good. More often we ground out results. Frequently we lapsed back to being atrocious.

 

P15 W6 D2 L7 Pts 20

 

That's 50 points a season form though, the sort of return that puts teams into 8th place.

 

It was the 13 games prior that saw us almost relegated.

Bar a goal of Cisses arse we would probably have been relegated man!

[Happy Face 29]

Bar a goal of Cisses arse we would probably have been relegated man!

 

The West Brom one?

 

How would that have cost us 5 points and a better goal difference?

[scotty84 0]

We got rid of Demba Ba, since we got rid of Demba Ba, we haven't been able to play like that since Demba left, Demba shops at Morrisons, I'm LinkedIn to Demba Ba

 

Haven't you all been listening to a word Pardew has been saying!? Forget tactics, money, owners, Demba ba left us! The sooner we all realise this the better!

Edited September 17, 2013 by scotty84

[Happy Face 29]

Pardew fucked up loads las season, shit loads.

 

Yes he could have better support in the summer but we still had a good enough squad not to play dog shit just missing relegation.

 

It was he who started the season with Cisse out wide to appease Ba. He spouted this week about not being able to play an attacking team since Ba left. He didnt leave til half way through the season.

 

His only tactics last season were praying Ben Arfa could pull him out the shit each match.

 

Then there's Jonas, persevering with this bloke when it was abundantly clear he offered little anymore.

 

Had he had any nouse, any tactics, any plan ab or c he would have continued with 443 and picked players on form to fit into the system rather than jumping from one formation to the other whilst refusing to drop his favourites.

 

The left wing has been a gaping hole for years and his only real answer was Jonas. While I agree he had tough games where he was for ed into lots of non first teamers eg Swansea, he also had plenty of opportunities to bring people in when the majority of the first choice 11 was fielded and he didn't.

 

I struggle to think of many times when he has dropped a "favourite" to bring in a squad player.

 

Just like this season Taylor, Jonas and Tiote have all exited the first 11 by random events, not Pardews will.

 

A defeat or two and he will revert to cowardly type.

 

You're only allowed 10 outfield players CT

[Christmas Tree 4005]

The West Brom one?

 

How would that have cost us 5 points and a better goal difference?

Probably.

 

Having 3 points less going into the last few games could have made them even nervier encounters.

 

The point is bar a bit of luck we were nearly go e for all your "but if we discount this third of a season we would be 8th".

 

 

[Happy Face 29]

Probably.

 

Having 3 points less going into the last few games could have made them even nervier encounters.

 

The point is bar a bit of luck we were nearly go e for all your "but if we discount this third of a season we would be 8th".

 

Extraploating what might have possibly happened had we dropped two points we won in October and then laughing at me for looking at what actually happened in reality.

 

Great work.

 

I've not discounted anything. Current form tables can tell you a great deal about a clubs trajectory.

[Happy Face 29]

Pardew fucked up loads las season, shit loads.

 

Yes he could have better support in the summer but we still had a good enough squad not to play dog shit just missing relegation.

 

It was he who started the season with Cisse out wide to appease Ba. He spouted this week about not being able to play an attacking team since Ba left. He didnt leave til half way through the season.

 

His only tactics last season were praying Ben Arfa could pull him out the shit each match.

 

Then there's Jonas, persevering with this bloke when it was abundantly clear he offered little anymore.

 

Had he had any nouse, any tactics, any plan ab or c he would have continued with 443 and picked players on form to fit into the system rather than jumping from one formation to the other whilst refusing to drop his favourites.

 

The left wing has been a gaping hole for years and his only real answer was Jonas. While I agree he had tough games where he was for ed into lots of non first teamers eg Swansea, he also had plenty of opportunities to bring people in when the majority of the first choice 11 was fielded and he didn't.

 

I struggle to think of many times when he has dropped a "favourite" to bring in a squad player.

 

Just like this season Taylor, Jonas and Tiote have all exited the first 11 by random events, not Pardews will.

 

A defeat or two and he will revert to cowardly type.

 

Your criticism amounts to the fact he has no backbone and bows to stronger players, picks his favourites.

 

Interested to hear examples of any performances you think were put in that should have kept out more senior players?

 

There's been some clear examples this season. I mean last season.

[The Fish 9382]

 

I don't see any style that makes a team starting Sammy Ameobi, Shane Ferguson, Danny Simpson and Mike Williamson anything other than relegation bait.

 

You can hoy Marveaux and Stevie Taylor in there too when they aren't the ONLY weak links in the team.

 

See Williamson and Simpson are, in my view, average to poor premier league players. Look at Norwich, Southampton and I don't buy that their defence was so much better than our own. Sammeobi and Shane aren't ready for the top flight yet, but Marveaux could definitely start for some of the lower half teams.

 

I agree that we were hamstrung by injuries, but I don't think that Pardew is entirely faultless. We relied too heavily on long balls which bypassed our strong central midfield area. I understand you don't want Williamson dallying on the ball because he hasn't the ability that Colo does, however, I don't think the hoof was his only option.

[Christmas Tree 4005]

Extraploating what might have possibly happened had we dropped two points we won in October and then laughing at me for looking at what actually happened in reality.

 

[/size]

We didnt finish 8th.

[Happy Face 29]

Hansen was on MOTD on Saturday and he was lamenting Crystal palace's insistence on playing out of defence against Man U and just walking into their trap every time. I agree with him they should just welly it whenever in doubt.

 

Simpson, Williamson, Taylor, Ferguson is a back four every bit as poor as Palace.

[Happy Face 29]

We didnt finish 8th.

 

I never said we did.

 

Do you understand what the form table represents?