Politics

[ewerk 35003]

Criticism of Israel does not equal antisemitism.

 

Chanting death of the IDF isn’t antisemitism.

 

Chanting death to the IDF is however most likely a crime in this country but not antisemitic. It is probably wrong and I did think of the likes of Gloom’s conscripted family when I read about it. Bibi seems to liken any criticism of the Israeli government’s actions to antisemitism and it couldn’t be further from the truth but it has worked for him.

 

The likes of Bob Vylan and Kneecap know they aren’t making a difference by making a stand but it keeps it in the public eye when the UK government appears to be doing fuck all about it.

[Rayvin 6719]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Criticism of Israel does not equal antisemitism.

 

Chanting death of the IDF isn’t antisemitism.

 

Chanting death to the IDF is however most likely a crime in this country but not antisemitic. It is probably wrong and I did think of the likes of Gloom’s conscripted family when I read about it. Bibi seems to liken any criticism of the Israeli government’s actions to antisemitism and it couldn’t be further from the truth but it has worked for him.

 

The likes of Bob Vylan and Kneecap know they aren’t making a difference by making a stand but it keeps it in the public eye when the UK government appears to be doing fuck all about it.

 

It will be whatever the government decides it is in the end. I'm wondering if they might be about to use this to make a show of going after left leaning people and putting them in prison same as they did for the hotel burning fiasco.

[ewerk 35003]

We still live in a country with separation of powers so I won’t blame the government for the outcome even if their reaction has been identical to that of the right.

[Meenzer 17034]

44 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Trump is with Russia, not Ukraine, but Europe is supposed to be on Ukraine’s side too. I’m always struck by how that particular genocide doesn’t inspire the same level of solidarity here in the UK. I didn’t spot a single Ukraine flag during any performance at Glastonbury. Nor did I hear any artists lead any rousing chants of “Slava Ukraine”, despite Netanyahu’s tactics of siege and starvation coming straight out of Putin’s playbook. 

 

There has been in the past - e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61943613 - but it's true (if grim and sad) that there seems to be a degree of "conflict fatigue" where Ukraine is concerned, yes.

[Dr Gloom 24688]

23 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I get that for sure. I would throw into the mix as well though that the UK supports Israel whereas it doesn't support Russia - so there's a domestic angle to it there. There's not much more anyone can do than what we're doing with the Ukraine, the government supports them and is assisting them - Russia doesn't give a shit if we protest them but Israel does actually on some level respond to international pressure. So arguably people's energy is actually better spent on Gaza than it is on Ukraine.

 

I think if people's feeds were full of dead and dying Ukrainian children it'd be different though, tbh.

I actually think the amount Starmer can influence Netanyahu is negligible but I take your point. The issue is Trump. Netanyahu won’t stop until Trump tells him to but sadly he has his biggest cheerleader in the White House. Biden was fucking senile in his last year as president and should never have ran again but I’m convinced we wouldn’t be where we are today with a democratic president in the White House. Bibi upped the stakes before the election and doubled down after Trump started his second term knowing he’d have his support. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 6719]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I actually think the amount Starmer can influence Netanyahu is negligible but I take your point. The issue is Trump. Netanyahu won’t stop until Trump tells him to but sadly he has his biggest cheerleader in the White House. Biden was fucking senile in his last year as president and should never have ran again but I’m convinced we wouldn’t be where we are today with a democratic president in the White House. Bibi upped the stakes before the election and doubled down after Trump started his second term knowing he’d have his support. 

 

Agreed about Starmer tbf but we could stop supplying arms. Instead we're branding the people trying to prevent planes going over there as terrorists. 

 

I don't think any sort of genuine de-escalation is even possible anymore tbh, the hatred will span generations. Maybe if Netanyahu answered for war crimes but I don't think he values the peace and safety of his own people enough for that.

[ohhh_yeah 3113]

3 hours ago, Renton said:

 

It really isn't whataboutery at all though, the "crimes" are directly connected. I don't see it remotely as a hate crime personally, I don't equate the IDF as being synonymous with being Jewish, but if I'm not allowed an opinion based on my non-jewish ethnicity then yes, let's take it to court and let them decide. Meanwhile let the atrocities continue and make sure nobody can speak out against it for fear of being labelled an antisemite.

 

 

This!   

 

Edited 5 hours ago by ohhh_yeah

[strawb 4943]

5 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Yeah, I’ve seen them, which is why my position changed from where I was after  October 7, where I could see why Israel needed to retaliate, to where it is today after the assault on Gaza intensified. I’m not here to defend what Israel is doing. 

 

I’ve also seen similar harrowing videos coming out of Ukraine, the forgotten genocide.

 

Maybe it’s my Jewish paranoia but it appears to me that some genocides matter more than others

Sorry mate, I try not to get involved in conversations that I’m outmatched in. 
 

But you called whataboutism earlier, this is pure whataboutism.

 

Its not forgotten about at all, by anyone.

 

And it does come across as Jewish paranoia.