TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, ewerk said: Depends if it's a well hung parliament. Sigh that was the joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Andrew said: You ever worked in an office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Everything seems to be pointing to the youth vote. The Guardian seems to think that if there's a turnout in excess of 66%, Labour will actually win the thing. Lower than 62% and they're fucked. Historically, it's been at 44%. So yeah, it's not looking likely. Although that said, the longest queues for polling booths are coming from universities... I can understand the youth vote being important when both party's are similar, but with such a "great" offer from Labour, that should be enough to swing, swing voters. IE When both party's are in the centre it's easy to vote Tory because "at least their good with the economy". Big difference this time. I would have continued voting Tory had it not been for such a different / good manifesto. Think a lot of working class Tory voters will follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Who do you want to come in and take over? It's disappointed me that none of the more moderate labour leader hopefuls haven't more full throatedly jumped on the Corbyn bandwagon so as to be able to bridge the divide between the momentum new blood and the old centrist blairites. You'd think, looking bewyond the election that this is the difficult job for anyone, to unite the party behind an inclusive ideaology, because as is evident from 3 elections in a row, neither wing can succeed without the other. Perhaps they have to keep their powder dry for another 3 years and the risk of embarrassment was always too high in doing that. Cooper seemed a bit more vocal late in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Christmas Tree said: I can understand the youth vote being important when both party's are similar, but with such a "great" offer from Labour, that should be enough to swing, swing voters. IE When both party's are in the centre it's easy to vote Tory because "at least their good with the economy". Big difference this time. I would have continued voting Tory had it not been for such a different / good manifesto. Think a lot of working class Tory voters will follow suit. Well the notion that pulling Labour to the left forced people to make a choice was always my contention, but it's not popular logic around here. And in fairness, doesn't appear to be about to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17836 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: I'm pretty sure renton is in the anyone but Corbyn camp I'm pretty much in the anyone but May camp. Just hugely frustrated at the lack of opposition. And yes, I'm pessimistic. Justifiably given the clusterfuck of recent history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Happy Face said: It's disappointed me that none of the more moderate labour leader hopefuls haven't more full throatedly jumped on the Corbyn bandwagon so as to be able to bridge the divide between the momentum new blood and the old centrist blairites. You'd think, looking bewyond the election that this is the difficult job for anyone, to unite the party behind an inclusive ideaology, because as is evident from 3 elections in a row, neither wing can succeed without the other. Perhaps they have to keep their powder dry for another 3 years and the risk of embarrassment was always too high in doing that. Cooper seemed a bit more vocal late in the day. Yep, they've been notable by their absence. I think the party is shafted if it fails here. I can't speak for all members obviously, but I'm not about to vote for a centrist to come back in. Where does that leave us? Fractured and split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17836 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Alex said: Think that was a bit of ill advised spin. Not really comparable to some of May's shit Yes, but I'm not comparing him to the hag. Point is, Corbyn spins things loads. What about his spin over the abysmal between election polls and results? He's been so good at it he has convinced some on here a Miliband sized defeat is a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 As an aside, and not because I think or even hold any hope that this might happen, but imagine if CT was right about this He could forever more claim to be the barometer for the nation's mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Even Parky's realised his powers of foresight are on the Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Renton said: Yes, but I'm not comparing him to the hag. Point is, Corbyn spins things loads. What about his spin over the abysmal between election polls and results? He's been so good at it he has convinced some on here a Miliband sized defeat is a success. Not a success, just not a defeat that suggests we should deviate from the overall course. It would be a fairly firm endorsement that the "far" left has something that many people consider feasible. If he was hammered, it would be really hard to argue that. If we get a Miliband style defeat, then as you say, we need to ditch Corbyn - but replace him with someone more palatable who isn't a centrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30470 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Renton said: Yes, but I'm not comparing him to the hag. Point is, Corbyn spins things loads. What about his spin over the abysmal between election polls and results? He's been so good at it he has convinced some on here a Miliband sized defeat is a success. Think it's unrealistic to expect him not to play the game at all. What else could he say? Also, that seems a bit straw man as I don't think anyone has said that re: the result but even if they had I suspect that would be relative to expectations as opposed to being taken in by 'Corbyn's spin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19841 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Happy Face said: It's disappointed me that none of the more moderate labour leader hopefuls haven't more full throatedly jumped on the Corbyn bandwagon so as to be able to bridge the divide between the momentum new blood and the old centrist blairites. You'd think, looking bewyond the election that this is the difficult job for anyone, to unite the party behind an inclusive ideaology, because as is evident from 3 elections in a row, neither wing can succeed without the other. Perhaps they have to keep their powder dry for another 3 years and the risk of embarrassment was always too high in doing that. Cooper seemed a bit more vocal late in the day. Fair point. The blame for this is spread three ways: Corbyn's refusal to try to speak to a wide range of labour voter, the plp rebellion which has left him with a front bench of nobodies and half wits, plus the usual attack from the sun and mail. i think of all of those though, Corbyn is the most culpable for this failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: Fair point. The blame for this is spread three ways: Corbyn's refusal to try to speak to a wide range of labour voter, the plp rebellion which has left him with a front bench of nobodies and half wits, plus the usual attack from the sun and mail. i think of all of those though, Corbyn is the most culpable for this failure. I think Murdoch is most culpable, personally. I mean, it depends on whether or not you consider people like Murdoch and their stranglehold on the media to be 'part of the system as it works' or as 'something which should be challenged frequently and repeatedly'. That's probably where our difference of opinion lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14073 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19841 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) The reason I blame Corbyn the most is because he had a golden opportunity to put the Tory ideology to bed for a while - proving to the public that austerity was a disaster - and he could have seen off their worst leader since IDS comfortably if he'd just been willing to compromise. Edited June 8, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19841 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: I think Murdoch is most culpable, personally. I mean, it depends on whether or not you consider people like Murdoch and their stranglehold on the media to be 'part of the system as it works' or as 'something which should be challenged frequently and repeatedly'. That's probably where our difference of opinion lies. Dacre wields more power in shaping UK public opinion than murdoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: The reason I blame Corbyn the most is because he had a golden opportunity to put the Tory ideology to bed for a while and he could have seen off their worst leader since IDS comfortably if he'd just been willing to compromise. Doubt it. I mean, maybe you're right, but I genuinely don't think there were that many votes riding on nuclear deterrents and the like. I suspect the IRA, terrorism, anti-monarchy stuff has probably had a bigger impact, and by the time he was leader there was nothing he could do about those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26494 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Dacre wields more power in shaping UK public opinion than murdoch How do you figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Dr Gloom said: Dacre wields more power in shaping UK public opinion than murdoch Both responsible, along with Rothermere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, ewerk said: How do you figure? Just guessing, but I think it's because Gloom considers the Times to somehow be free from the influence of its owner. Not sure he factored in Sky though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17836 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alex said: Think it's unrealistic to expect him not to play the game at all. What else could he say? Also, that seems a bit straw man as I don't think anyone has said that re: the result but even if they had I suspect that would be relative to expectations as opposed to being taken in by 'Corbyn's spin'. I dunno. I accept you have to view results in their most positive light, but you have to face reality sometimes. He's always struck me as having his head in the sand. Also I really doubt his desire to be PM over being a principled opposition leader. So many people to blame. Farage, Cameron, Dacre, May, Johnson, Gove, Davis, Miliband and yes, Corbyn. What really matters is where we've arrived. A UK I would have not recognised when I first started posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26494 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 The Times isn't indpendent of Murdoch. I'm not sure if he has any editorial influence at Sky News though? Plus isn't The Sun still the biggest selling paper in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, ewerk said: The Times isn't indpendent of Murdoch. I'm not sure if he has any editorial influence at Sky News though? Plus isn't The Sun still the biggest selling paper in the UK? I think if you include online readership, the Sun is eclipsed by the Mail. Although that might be on an international scale, rather than the UK. It's supposedly the most viewed news site in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26494 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 No one reads it for the politics though, they read it to see which celebrity has made an AMAZING transformation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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