Happy Face

Who would have got your vote Fop?

Do you or do you not think defining someone by their skin colour (correctly or not) is racist? And do you think playing to that is inclusive or polarising? I think he's made speeches that make plain how racial divisions have broken down and how his vision of America is one that works together for the common good... Your argument belongs in a bygone era with the Black Panthers and the KKK. Everyone else has transcended that already. McCain basically retained the confederacy states last night. Obama didn't win everything else because of his race. He won primarily thanks to the ineptitude/arrogance of George Bush and Dick Cheney. Hilary Clinton would have won it too and it would have been just as historic to have a female in the top spot.

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be). I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it. Could you actually put that into plain English please? That would be racist. Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either. The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials. See my sig. Wahey. Another WU bites the dust. Did you really think I couldn't put it more plainly because it was racist? Or did I just you as usual? I was responding to the only "point" I could decipher in your original post, that "he's doing more to sustain racism than he is to destroy it." That's why I started my reponse as i did. I didn't thing you "couldn't put it more plainly because it was racist", I assumed (like everyone else) you don't have a clue what you're on about yourself so have taken to filibustering by responding to older posts rather than respond to what's been asked of you now.

Writes his own speeches too. Incredible to contrast them with Bush's turgid victory speeches. With the "Ashley" speech he's already created two moments to push "I have a dream" and "Ask not what your country can do for you..." in the public conscious. Looking forward to the inauguration speech like an Only Folls and Horses christmas special when i was 12.

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be). I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it. Could you actually put that into plain English please? That would be racist. Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either. The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials. See my sig. Wahey. Another WU bites the dust.

I literally don't have a clue what point Fop is even trying to make. Is it that Oba has appealed to a wide demographic of the American people? No shit?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be). I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it. Could you actually put that into plain English please? That would be racist. Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either. The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials.

I'm not saying his aim (successfully achieved) wasn't to do that, clearly it was. It was his ticket to power why would he not play to that? I'm saying it wasn't achieved in a "colourless" brotherhood of man way, quite the opposite in fact, rather than being all things to all people, he was/is/maybe will be whatever he needed to be to specific groups of people. Like I said just wait and see. Doesnt make sense, to do the former you have to be the latter. No you don't, and frankly you shouldn't need to or want to if you actually believed in the prior. But he's a politician and ends justify the means, so what are you going to do? You have to be the latter otherwise you dont win the election. I think you agree with that though. Yes, probably (unless you are the second coming), but that makes you a consummate politician, not crusader or anything like it. A politician will sell (or use) their Granny to get the power they want, but that doesn't make it right or them anything else other than a clever and ruthless politician. Some politicians can have a modicum of principle. Personally I like Tony Benn.

I'm not saying his aim (successfully achieved) wasn't to do that, clearly it was. It was his ticket to power why would he not play to that? I'm saying it wasn't achieved in a "colourless" brotherhood of man way, quite the opposite in fact, rather than being all things to all people, he was/is/maybe will be whatever he needed to be to specific groups of people. Like I said just wait and see. He's nothing to christian evangelicals.

Like 2 pensioners arguing over the price of some tat at a flea market. Harris "Premier league club for sale, roll up roll, up git yourself a bargain!" Nathaniel "How much like?" Harris "$400M" Nathaniel "Do what? You're havin' a laugh intcha?" Harris "Whey make an offer!" Nathaniel "$200M" Harris "Do what? You're havin' a laugh intcha? Move out of the way and stop blocking the stall" Nathaniel "I saw a far better club on a stall at the other end of the car park you kno, I just don't want to walk all the way back. $220M?"

I see Setanta have got a new "Is Barton banned?" bar which gives his current disciplinary status 24 hours a day.

I'd love it if he fessed up to being muslim in his acceptance speech.

I must be the only cunt who's not interested, they're yank we are English, we've done more for the world than them, command more respect than them, and are more important than them. Fuckin arseholes. Why do people care? If we end up in a nuclear war it won't necessarily be their fault, same with economic meltdown, China will have a stronger economy than them and no cunt fusses over their election. Fuck them. I know fuck all about America, apart from they're mongrel race cunts, and before you say English people are, so fuck, not as much as them. Possibly one of the most ignorant statements ever posted on this forum. It was intended to be. I'm ignorant of everything yank, and those Irish yanks are worse than the real thing, collecting money for the IRA in Boston, and McDonalds chipping in. Cunts. My favourite part was "China will have a stronger economy than them and no cunt fusses over their election".

how long have you spent working all that out About as long as it took to type.

He is the man, this is his time. "Good afternoon Mr President, welcome to the White House, I'd like to introduce you to this gentleman visiting with us from the CIA. He's come along today to give you a short powerpoint presentation on what we call the Kennedy solution..."

The fixtures this weekend mean we can go eighth if... Newcastle beat Fulham Chelsea beat Blackburn (or draw) Wigan beat Stoke (or draw) Tottenham beat Man City (or draw) Sunderland beat Portsmouth (or draw) Villa beat Boro (or draw)

I'm sure it'll have been mentioned already but any move to a permanent role will clearly result in a Roeder style dip. Let him stay on a rolling contract, let him spend.

More tv money when you're on tv.

Harris is getting confused by his own rumour mongering now... http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4339603,00.html With a propensity for lying to fans like this it's no wonder Ashley wanted him on the payroll.

"Christ, this hair's heavy"

Has Wenger gone like?

Indeed. They threw millions at Afghanistan to defeat the Russians. And then nothing whatsoever to rebuild the country after the ravages of war. I don't see how Clinton could have forced this through 2 presidents before he even got into office. The Taliban were just a symptom of this root failure that grew and fed on the anger of US abandonment. Clinton could have done a lot, he didn't (which generally was his policy). But frankly much like Obama, whatever he'd done would have caused issues, doing the "right thing" by Afghanistan would not have been an easy course, nor would it have been without cost or a lot of criticism. So he stuck his head in the sand and dodged the bullet that Bush caught smack in the face. It would have been a FAR easier course for Reagan or Bush Snr at the end of the war with Russia though. It would have been a lot cheaper too. They made a similar mistake in Iraq with debaathification. Sacked an entire nations army and hoped they'd give the weapons back and go home quietly. Nice move Bemmer, created an armed militia in one fell swoop. They were in a no-win situation there too, which was the biggest mistake anyone make over Iraq, not realising that Saddam had keep the lid on an all out civil war for 20 years. Retaining the status-quo was unacceptable to the majority of the population (but it would have been the most sensible course never the less). Add to that the HUGE influx of Bin Lardinists looking for a cause/fight, and Syria and Iran's interests in a nice destabilising rukus and you get what we have. Again no win, and more importantly no easy solution for anyone that takes over now. I think it had less to do with what was right for Iraq and far more to do with who got paid for doing it. Paying a US corporation to control the country is far more desirable than supplying Iraqi people with jobs. Course it's not just Iraq where that shit happens, they did it after Katrina too. I read an old article this morning which pointed out rather than paying locals, the contract for tarping over roofs was tendered out to the Shaw group at $175 per square, it was subcontracted to such a degree that in the end the men doing the job got $2 per square. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060410/davis ...and the tarps are provided by FEMA.

Never thought you'd ever make such an admission. kudos.