Rayvin

A report came out yesterday in GB News that was saying that we're getting more small boats this year than any previous years - specifically noting that it was Starmer's unwelcome record. So I assume it's to fight back against that for the all important 7% of ex Labour reform voters.

That has been all over the news today. I think that the government is probably pushing it to show that their efforts to engage with the French on this issue are being successful. I cannot think of any other reason why the BBC would be spamming it everywhere.

I've been largely ignoring this thread cos the whole situation is pissing me off - but then I saw that it got the "hot" label and thought maybe, just maybe, we were signing someone. Nope, just a weather forecast...

I think the only way they become viable for governance is via merge with the Tories. Which will happen one way or another, coalition at least. Cabinet will be populated by the usual suspects plus a few Reform orcs.

I want to be clear here that I'm not saying I would take Reform Gloom said it was a shame Labour wasn't going to implement PR and I mused that Reform at least have it squarely on their manifesto, and whatever you may think of them part of their angle is being reliable against what they promise. Their manifesto references being a 'contract' with the voters, so I think we'd have to acknowledge that they do indeed intend to implement some of this and PR is quite probably one of the easiest ones because it doesn't really cost anything compared to 90% of the rest of it. If they win I think they'll bring it in. Doesn't make it worth them winning, but it is a silver lining.

Not sure, naive for what? I'm not for a second saying I'd vote for the silly daft bastard, I'm just pointing out that he'll likely do what he says on this one as he's been pushing for it the entire time he's been politically involved. I also don't think it'll destroy the country tbh - Trump and Brexit prove that countries can survive a lot of shit. It'll be horrifying, but the UK will exist on the other side of it. I'm really just saying that if we have to have a party of incompetent fascists in charge, I'd prefer them to be pro PR.

Yeah just checked, Reform are committed to PR. That's the one silver lining here tbh. Starmer might well be too chicken to do it but Farage will because it'll represent his complete and total victory over British politics. I might actually be willing him on with that Fucking hell.

Weirdly, it's possible that Farage might deliver that when Reform win. It's a manifesto point for them isn't it? Could be the necessary evil we need to get fucking rid of this two party system once and for all.

Absolutely is yeah. Still think Starmer deserves it though.

Zara Sultana has now run off to this too.

This video showed up in my feed and I immediately thought it would be some sort of right wing nonsense - but I watched it anyway and the guy is actually really good and tackling the issue legitimately, including HS2, housing, all sorts. However, I don't know that much about this area, so if anyone can be arsed having it on in the background at any point, I'd appreciate a view. He's pretty easy listening. Fairly non-political, and yet...

If there's no one to vote for who represents what you want, why vote? Chicken and egg I suppose. Additionally, insufficient work is done to prepare young people for the realities of adult life, so they only start taking politics seriously once they've realised how fucked they are. Either way though, I remember Brexit enough to blame older people for a lot of the shit we're in, my own grandparents included. I think there'd be more sympathy with the nuance if the same was applied the other way around - instead we have had to endure decades of being called feckless and worthless. It sucks, but I honestly have more anger for the boomers than I do for any other grouping of society. That's not personal btw, and I would never apply it indiscriminately, but as a group - the numbers over time justify the view. A generation who don't know how good they had it compared to those that came after, and then preached to the rest of us about how hopeless we all were that we couldn't achieve the same things they did. Again, I know that's not you.

It sounds as if he doesn't intend to spearhead it and that it's the brainchild of several other MPs as much as him. The left wing Reform, I suppose.

And in news which I guarantee is going to annoy absolutely everyone... Corbyn is exploring setting up a new left wing party. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/03/jeremy-corbyn-hints-at-launch-of-new-party-as-leftwing-alternative-to-labour

Young people don't vote because they're disillusioned with democracy and don't believe any of the options will do anything to improve their lives. This is because the options cater to older people rather than the young. Vicious circle. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/11/younger-people-more-relaxed-alternatives-democracy-survey

That was Thatcher - carried out in tandem with Reagan. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot Neoliberalism sees competition as the defining characteristic of human relations. It redefines citizens as consumers, whose democratic choices are best exercised by buying and selling, a process that rewards merit and punishes inefficiency. It maintains that “the market” delivers benefits that could never be achieved by planning.

When I'm 75 I'll just be asking a younger person who they would want me to vote for and go with that.

One thing I've been reflecting on lately with respect of this argument over immigration, especially if it's coming up with family members - you don't need to 'win' that one because Labour have gone all in on it anyway. They've already halved incoming numbers and they're planning to get it down to about 200k, which would be a staggering achievement on that metric. Under the Tories we were at 900k net a year, it's now 400k. It's not going to improve anything, but it's one less thing we can blame - eventually maybe we'll be able to actually address a lot of this. I saw a good article the other day from 3 years ago, basically saying that sorting the housing crisis would alleviate so much of the pain atm: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jan/17/the-big-idea-could-fixing-housing-fix-everything-else-too?CMP=share_btn_url

I understand TPs point but I have some of those vox pops from Brexit etched into my brain. "What if its harder for your children in their future?" "Dont care, sovereignty!" "What if your son loses his job" "Dont care, sovereignty!!!!" It makes it intensely difficult to view it as just something the government and corporations did. The government and corporations didn't want Brexit.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/pensions-and-retirement/scrap-triple-lock-pension-avoid-retirement-age-3782377?srsltid=AfmBOorlAA9z_DajefmuN3ocDjT-wcxP30L8_30fCrIphguGuf_RN2An IFS has come out and said we need to scrap the triple lock or raise retirement to 74. This is due to the lock costing an extra £40bn by 2050, due to an ageing population. They won't get rid of it now though because #boomerlivesmatter As I said before, Gen Z and Alpha will literally be tearing the country apart when they realise the degree to which they've been fucked over. Tbh I might be too at that point. As it's happening, I will ponder whimsically on how the markets might be reacting.

Gen Z is anyone from late 90s to around 2010, from memory - so we're just about to start seeing the Alphas hit adulthood in the coming few years. Z followed Millennials. And I have no idea man, I suspect the media just throw shit around until something sticks and we all run with it.

Generation Alpha is the latest one to be defined after Z I feel bad for the ones who grow up as Gen Beta.

It does have to be a gradual, incremental move. They could start by talking about it - might bring a few more people on board with these cuts, at least from the left. See the thing is, I look at this and think "well, if the situation in the country was really that dire, they'd be telling the truth about it. They'd be acknowledging why we are where we are, and how urgently we need to rectify that". They're not doing that though, so I assume none of them are serious people and this is all just posturing to show they're tough on the economy.

I mean this in the nicest possible way - I don't give a flying fuck about the markets. If they can survive chaos like Trump, they can survive pretty much anything. Beyond that, whether the others have a plan or not, they're under no obligation to give any pointers to the government. Labour took the same stance when the Tories were in charge, they said absolutely fuck all about what they would do. But I do have something for you anyway, as it goes - rejoin the EU. That's what I'd be yelling for. £36bn a year out of the public purse... That wealth tax is coming by the way, Gen Z and Alpha are going to eat people alive at this rate. Unsure how the markets would react to several generations worth of desperate, frustrated rage - but we'll see.

It very much sounds like she might done. Politically, I won't miss her - but saying that I assume everything she's done has been with his full blessing, so I'm not sure what the issue would be here.