Rayvin

Yeah and since then we won a couple of games I didn't have us down to win. I'm not gonna be shamed on that prediction lads, I made peace with it being entirely wrong as soon as I posted it But I just thought it might be interesting to compare.

I see that side tbh but I'm always brought back down to earth a bit on imagining Russian competence when I think about how widespread corruption is there. Corruption breeds incompetence, in the end. And Putin, for all his history, has surrounded himself with inferior men - because, I suspect, it's the only way he holds onto power. I do think he is playing a game we haven't gotten our heads fully around yet, in terms of misinformation and sowing division in the West... but I also think that was supposed to render us inert at this point. And it hasn't. So I think he's miscalculated and assumed we were entirely broken when we were just in fact wounded. Brexit, Trump, everyone's strong views on these issues... none of that changes the reality that we still all basically agree on freedom and Western liberal democracy. I actually think he may well have undone a lot of his well poisoning. Not all, but some.

I think it's hard to call Everton yet because they have so many games in hand versus those around them. They get two wins from that and they're more or less on even footing with us. The main thing though is that we'd actually need 2 or 3 teams to put a run together for it to be any threat to us. We've done the hard work in clawing our way out - we don't need to keep it at this level, we just need to match the pack.

Well I gave a bit of a range there since there can always be surprising results, but I think 6 points from the home games and 7 from the away ones. Takes us to 41.

Russia seems to be saying it's the former. That post Tom made the other day referenced a statement that I believe was from the Kremlin outlining how Putin had taken on a 'historic duty' to solve the Ukraine problem once and for all, so that future generations didn't have to. That honestly sounds like a legacy consideration to me. I don't think fucking over Europe has legs beyond the next 10 years anyway - we'll be increasingly on renewables by that point anyway, based on this. The less dependency we have on them, the less power they have over us. I don't see how cutting us off there helps them longer term.

So that we can actually just relax I agree there, although I am pretty much certain that short of something truly bizarre, we're now fine.

I reckon we end up between 40 and 45 pts, which will obviously be more than enough.

The fact that he hasn't done this, and has only threatened to, is telling.

ASM will need to be managed in a particular way tbf. I trust Howe on that over the long term. As for the rest, great result. It says a lot about how difficult it is to climb from a bad start that we've taken 16 points from 6 games and are still not caught up to mid table. But that's actually a testament to the incredible work that has been done here - we needed to be incredibly strong to pull out of it, and we have been. Just superb.

As much as I'm glad Ukraine is defending itself, I'm not sure I'll ever get used to seeing people being killed like that. This is of course a tragedy for the 20 year old Russians Putin has sent to their deaths as well.

Not quite following that, what's gone on there?

It's possible but I don't see what Russia gains from it - they can't defeat NATO conventionally and losing to us would be a disaster for Putin. Similarly, for all he rattles on about nukes he'd get plenty right back down his throat if it ever came to it - so again, it's hard to see how that would benefit him. I think the grim and unpleasant truth is that the Russians don't think we'll do anything no matter what they do, because they have correctly determined that MAD allows both sides to do whatever the fuck they like as long as they don't attack each other.

Apparently a while longer yet. I fully believe we should go in there, but we aren't going to. We are going to watch this happen. I mean they haven't yet started executing people on the street but that'll be made public too so I think we're going to need to collectively brace for how bad things are going to get.

Great bit of knowledge there MF, cheers

Have only just come across this so apologies if it's already old news, but I risk sharing it just in case because it's probably the most mental pre-match interview I've heard https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12518053/aldershot-manager-mark-molesley-gives-bizarre-interview "...Terry has brought a briefcase in - he's got 4 Japanese talking dogs in there. This is what we work with, and we'll continue to work hard".

The EU needs to federalise and formerly militarise. But then I've been saying that for years. It cannot survive as a small group of semi co-dependent countries, not in the face of global superpowers being forged. As a properly unified group, it's a force to be reckoned with. As a group of smaller states it's going to be taken apart one at a time. Ironically, for stuff like Brexit to have stood any chance of working, we needed internationalism and dependency on the markets of other countries to be upheld. Once that goes out of the window, existing as a an independent nation is off the table altogether IMO.

If China, the US and Russia end up in the same war there'll be nukes flying all over the place - not sure particular theatres will matter at that point. If it came down to a simultaneous conventional war with both China and Russia then I think Ken is right, the US will focus on China. Not sure that's definitively where we're heading though, not yet at least. Those countries have a lot to lose from that outcome too.

China can get to fuck.

Have removed the duplicate thread, hopefully the universe didn't notice it and our run keeps going A more skilled mod than me could probably merge it.

I also feel this way fwiw but I'm also very glad it isn't my decision.

Just to echo Toonpack, I don't think we're there yet on nuclear war either. It could happen but I wouldn't say its likely given that the west remains on the sidelines. What seems clear though is that we are going to have to watch the brutalisation of Ukraine, and that this is going to change things forever. I'm sorry for all the stress and pain you have at the moment. I hope things start to improve from here, you deserve a break.

I think it's unfair unless there's a demonstrable logic that doing this will put more pressure on the Russian government somehow. Ukraine is suffering losses of life, the careers of a few Russian athletes being hindered is insignificant compared to that. If it's out of spite then I think it's uncalled for.

16 years later This forum will probably soon qualify as resource of historical importance tbh.

China has refused to take part in sanctions, predictably. Russia is going to end up a vassal state of the Chinese at this rate.

Just finished reading it, a superb interview indeed. It got me thinking though about all the good work Putin has done to sow misinformation and bullshit on both sides of the political spectrum. My (hard-core leftwing) friend absolutely and fundamentally believes that this is on NATO. And then you go over to the right wing YouTube community and that's what they're all saying too. I pointed out to my friend that he was basically agreeing with Farage and he just gave me the "even a stopped clock" line, but the reality is this isn't a twice a day issue. It's almost every issue. The left and the right are uniting in their backlash against the international order that has kept us at peace for over half a century, and they're both too blind to realise that they are now absolutely two sides of the same coin. In fact, people on both sides have started telling me that there is no left and right anymore, it's all just freedom versus control. And like, maybe that's true - but if it is, it's because both sides have lined up in close proximity to Putin - without even realising it I might add. Their talking points have been sown for years by agents of disruption and misinformation. That's what Cadwalldr was saying, that's what Fiona Hill is saying. So that's why they think there's no left or right anymore, because there isn't. There's just propaganda. Neither side trusts the government except over sacred cow style issues, and neither side is prepared to listen to reason. Putin owns both the brexit voting accidental destroyers of Western liberalism, along with the communism demanding, intentional destroyers of Western liberalism (due to their belief that behind the psychotic and murderous eyes of Putin lies a cuddly figure who only wants a fair world). Useful idiots, IMO. Anyway, hard to imagine how we even break out of this.