Rayvin

I think we might well be near the bottom depending on how things go from here. If the remain wing are playing this right then we end up at a second referendum and I genuinely think this whole fiasco gets knocked on the head, Britain does a bit of diplomatic courtship, and we move on. The EU isn't exactly unaware of why this has happened, or indeed blind to the fact that it's actually very much a "there but for the grace of god" situation. The EU has reacted firmly, I believe, because it no longer suits their interests to pull punches on Johnson. But if we get to the point where another UK government is formed then I think the situation can be salvaged. No one wants a feud, and this has largely been a British fiasco that occasionally spills onto the EU's doorstep so far. Granted it won't remain that way if it goes through, but for now I don't think there is too much reason for us to believe that lasting damage has been done (in terms of relationships - in terms of global standing it's been a lasting damage from the word go).

It's also only really a risk because there's a chance Johnson could do something illegal. But Parliament still have a last minute revoke in their arsenal should they choose to use it.

Legally he has to get that extension though. And we're talking about No Deal now or later at this point. Removing him from power doesn't guarantee that we don't end up right back here with a hard right wing government off the back of "the people" feeling like their "will" has been frustrated. Letting the Benn act play out means Johnson loses credibility with the electorate and potentially ends up strangled by the Brexit Party in any subsequent election. Taking him out now and replacing him with a GNU looks like a coup, and IMO is actually what he wants.

I still think the best outcome is for him not to be removed and for the Benn gambit to work out. It's a risk but is the ideal outcome.

The EU are not reactionary, I think they can see Johnson for what he is.

Exactly this.

An educated guess though. He clearly prizes PL advertising revenues and income and is prepared to spend extensively to get us promoted at first time of asking. It seems clear that the only real reason he keeps us is to promote sports direct and going down and staying down would absolutely harm that goal. It's also the only position under Ashley that we haven't really occupied which makes his reaction unknown rather than set.

Not if we stay down.

I mean, it's so insane that I can't actually believe he said it. I want to believe his account was hacked or something.

He actually tweeted this, apparently:

I don't think we're heading that way anyway. Feels to me more like we're going to run the gauntlet to October 31st.

Rebel Tories now working against the opposition to seize control of daily business. Small win for Boris.

As much as I still think we need to get relegated, it's hard to be a cynic on this one. Great for Matty, really happy for him.

If anyone wants cheering up, RTG is in full on crisis mode after their loss to Lincoln City, and subsequent goading by the Lincoln fans. Apparently Lincoln were non league a couple of years back and this represents the ultimate nadir for Sunderland. Until the next one.

I think Bruce's tenure here will be so disgraceful (and short) that I'll simply 'forget' he was ever manager at all.

Are you now an incel? The guardian has some serious concerns.

This enduring notion of Soros being some kind of left-wing kingpin is absurd. Even if he is everything they say he is, he's one rich guy against many rich guys. At worst he's an isolated example of a Left wing version of people like Rees Mogg himself.

Aye, there's no technicality that can save them short of Hungary or something vetoing it.

Nigel Farage himself, nailed on.

I'm gonna say mind, this is going to be a tragedy for the entire country, leave or remain. If fucking useless May hadn't decided it was hard Brexit or bust, we could have had a mediocre soft Brexit that was kinda pointless but probably does in some stupid way represent where the country actually was at the time. Now we have all or nothing Brexit, no matter who wins, we lose.

I don't think there really is much will to get rid of him outside of a few Momentum ultras. The impression I had from that whole 'mess' was that no one in Labour high command much cared, and it was coming from a grassroots democratic/administrative process.

Surely that's literally treason. Engaging a foreign power to undermine the strategic position of your own realm?

Is all of this enough of a corner to actually get us out of this?

Grieve has been the Tory hero for me in this whole mess. And I think while watching the Tory party fall apart has been a lifelong dream, it's actually starting to make me nervous. It's falling apart in a rather dangerous political direction.

If he does, Parliament will revoke. For sure. If Johnson goes that far, he'll have justified an extreme response.