Renton

Like it.

Inspired in retrospect but at the time I thought it was harsh on Rioch. Got to be said, Wenger is probably the best appointment in modern football history so you can hardly use it as a decent yardstick for an example of good football management. Also I don't think Rioch was terminated after only two games. how many games then. 4 ? 5 ? Those who called our appointment of Bobby Robson "lucky" would say the same of Wenger maybe ....... Surely not. I think its the best example you will find to spell out that the basic timing doesn't really matter in the long term. Wenger's appointment was lucky or inspired imo. Robson's selection was obvious as he was a proven manager. I'm not arguing that timing is the most crucial thing but it makes sense to plan your appointments in such a way that you get the manager you really want in. It seems to me that we have failed to do this mos the time which is why we have ended up with the likes of Souness.

Inspired in retrospect but at the time I thought it was harsh on Rioch. Got to be said, Wenger is probably the best appointment in modern football history so you can hardly use it as a decent yardstick for an example of good football management. Also I don't think Rioch was terminated after only two games.

but it isn't necessarily the case. You can replace the manager in May or June, give him the whole summer and he could still fuck up. So where does the timing count then ? It is the manager that knows what he is doing is what matters, there is no bad time to appoint the manager who does the good job and buys and sells well for you. i think it's nuts to back a manager then sack him september . if you give him funds, you've got to give the team a few months to see if the new players can gell. when was sir bobby sacked again? wasn't it a day after the window shut or something? if i remember correctly, souness was walked shortly after the closure of a transfer window where he'd just spent a fortune. that's just daft. ashley has a bold decision to make. either sack hughton (or ask him to return to being someone's number two) so he can bring in a new coach. if he does this it has to be - like you said - as soon as promotion is secured so we can build a squad over summer and get them playing together before the new season. the downside to this is we end up looking like the sterotypical impatient, poorly run, thick geordies that the likes of sky delight in portraying us as. who sacks a manager that has just won promotion? or, he backs and sticks with hughton. again, if as we all suspect this is what happens, he should give the manager and the team a chance and not panic and sack the manager just after the window shuts, especially if he's backed him to the tune of a few million quid. I don't agree. Results force situations. If you are bottom of the league or struggling, yet you know you have a group of players who should be doing better, then you have the whole season left to make something of the season. That is what happened with Gullit and Dalglish, particularly Gullit. They were both shown that change could improve the situation, for different reasons, so the change was made. And it improved the situation both times too. It was not the case with Robson, but the club had a manager lined up and if a good appointment had been made then things would have been entirely different. How did the sacking of Daglish and replacement with Gullit bring improvement? Do you really think its justifiable to sack a manager TWO games into a season? Do you really not think it would have been better to bin Daglish at the end of the previous season to give his replacement some time to form his own team? You talk a lot of sense LM but posts like this show you're blinded by loyalty to the old board imo. improvement in terms of what happened after the manager was changed and the reasons for the change. Remember - Dalglish was sacked primarily because we had sank badly in the league, along with the accent on negative football ie "attack attack" at Wembley in the FA Cup Final of all places. They allowed him to make changes in the summer and the first few games were no different. So they sacked him, again, remember the support was not very happy with what they were seeing, and like it or not, you have to listen to your support (Shame Ashley doesn't) I realise some are going to say they should have been stronger, but that is only because Gullit also didn't turn out to restor the Keegan style and results either. He DID however, give more entertaining football (now this is not my particular ideal I don't give a fuck for this "sexy football" bollocks") but we moved up the table and reached the FA Cup Final again. Robson is not in dispute. But these changes were all made right at the start of the season and so re-affirms that the "timing" is totally irrelevant when put aside the choice. Do you really think it would have been "good timing" to sack a manager with the record Dalglish had, who had just got you to the FA Cup Final for the first time in 24 years (if Shearer had not been injured, that season could have been a lot different anyway but that is another story) By the way, Alex Ferguson was appointed by ManU in the November, and Arsene Wenger in the September too. Were they "bad timing" ? Two games into the season though Leazes, that makes no sense to me. I think the board were too gutless to sack him after the FA cup personally and were just waiting for an excuse. That's poor management. I always though Gullit was an awful appointment too - I must have missed the entertaining football bit. I would have liked to see him (Dalgish) have another season or have him replaced in June.

It was Howard Webb - I'd add Bennet, D'Arso and I think it was Barry Knight who let that GBH on Bernard go at Everton that time. Of course, Howard Webb. You just have to look at him and you know for certain he's more interested in himself than the game. Twat. Utter cunt, as is Uriah Rennie, a joke of a person. The only person I'd lterally kill is I could get away with it though is Geoff Winter. CUNT

Don Hutchinson worth a mention? Grade A cunt.

but it isn't necessarily the case. You can replace the manager in May or June, give him the whole summer and he could still fuck up. So where does the timing count then ? It is the manager that knows what he is doing is what matters, there is no bad time to appoint the manager who does the good job and buys and sells well for you. i think it's nuts to back a manager then sack him september . if you give him funds, you've got to give the team a few months to see if the new players can gell. when was sir bobby sacked again? wasn't it a day after the window shut or something? if i remember correctly, souness was walked shortly after the closure of a transfer window where he'd just spent a fortune. that's just daft. ashley has a bold decision to make. either sack hughton (or ask him to return to being someone's number two) so he can bring in a new coach. if he does this it has to be - like you said - as soon as promotion is secured so we can build a squad over summer and get them playing together before the new season. the downside to this is we end up looking like the sterotypical impatient, poorly run, thick geordies that the likes of sky delight in portraying us as. who sacks a manager that has just won promotion? or, he backs and sticks with hughton. again, if as we all suspect this is what happens, he should give the manager and the team a chance and not panic and sack the manager just after the window shuts, especially if he's backed him to the tune of a few million quid. I don't agree. Results force situations. If you are bottom of the league or struggling, yet you know you have a group of players who should be doing better, then you have the whole season left to make something of the season. That is what happened with Gullit and Dalglish, particularly Gullit. They were both shown that change could improve the situation, for different reasons, so the change was made. And it improved the situation both times too. It was not the case with Robson, but the club had a manager lined up and if a good appointment had been made then things would have been entirely different. How did the sacking of Daglish and replacement with Gullit bring improvement? Do you really think its justifiable to sack a manager TWO games into a season? Do you really not think it would have been better to bin Daglish at the end of the previous season to give his replacement some time to form his own team? You talk a lot of sense LM but posts like this show you're blinded by loyalty to the old board imo.

Good luck!

Was voted the best in some other publication ahead of Regent Street. Masively overrated imo.

I guess access to tabs will reduce his chances of expanding the reduced capability set in future and also ensures that it's size is more rapidly decreased by his accelerated removal, enriching opportunity for the few that remain. Not that I'd endorse eugenics of course. You should do an Economics diploma mate, that's exactly the sort of stuff they come up with.

It's not invalid, all I'm saying is it needs careful interpretation (see Chez's post). Anyhow, I have literally just found out I have passed the second module of my distance learning exam in Health Econonomics - I thought I'd fucked it up big style, so now I'm over the moon. Get in.

football is largely reactionary, you simply can't tell when you will have a bad run of results or something happens that tells you that you need to change. It's the choice of manager that counts, not the timing, but very few are winners in this game, and all the clubs are chasing them. what do you think we should do leazes? stick with hughton if takes us up? will he deserve a crack at the top flight? or say thanks but appoint a manager with a better cv because deep down we all expect him to fail? I would replace him when promotion is secured. As for the replacement, that is the crucial thing, thats my point. If we get someone who ends up not being successful (relatively) then you could say we should have gave Hughton a chance and so the "timing" was wrong. FWIW, of the up and coming managers, I think Owen Coyle has something about him, but you just can't be sure. Fair enough imo. But, I think with the transfer windows that 'timing' is more important than you suggest Leazes. A brave man would say to Hughton 'Thank you very much' when he promotes us, than he would replace him. I understand though how problematic this is in practice.

Well, I for one like Nolan. He's done an excellent job imo. Enrique has probably been better but has been injured a while now. So Nolan probably deserves it.

The Hollywood perception that get's sold around the world is far from reality though, the model as advertised is a lie. Human Rights? The US are one of few countries where the state endorse torture of detainees. High standard of living? "Russia is top of the world league of child poverty with 26.6 per cent of children living below the poverty line. The US ranks second with a rate of 26.3 per cent; Britain is third at 21.3 per cent, while Italy comes in only slightly behind this at 21.2 per cent" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-...gue-693606.html Freedom of thought and religion are reducing too. So these are relative rates rather than absolute rates? Meaning, for instance, an American 'poor child' will still have huge benefits copared to a child from Zambia? Interesting stuff maybe, but you have to take these facts in context. Of course...and the fact that the cost of living is proportionally higher too. Quarter of the population of the world survive without any electricity and in monetary terms they're poorer than the majority of Americans who have power. But that's attributing disproportionate importance to monetary wealth. Someone can live a far more healthy self-sustained life on a yak farm in Peru where a family get by on $10 a week, than in a welfare house in New Orleans where the entire family gets $200 a week (plucking figures out of the air). Aye. All of which makes your 'comparisons' less valid imo.

Uh huh. So half the people on this forum are mentally ill - and no I'm not joking. Me? Well I simply want to either throw myself in front of a metro, or better, push a stranger in front of one. I ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE STANDING ON BUSTY PLATFORMS FOR THIS REASON. I also hate hitting the caps lock key.......

The Hollywood perception that get's sold around the world is far from reality though, the model as advertised is a lie. Human Rights? The US are one of few countries where the state endorse torture of detainees. High standard of living? "Russia is top of the world league of child poverty with 26.6 per cent of children living below the poverty line. The US ranks second with a rate of 26.3 per cent; Britain is third at 21.3 per cent, while Italy comes in only slightly behind this at 21.2 per cent" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-...gue-693606.html Freedom of thought and religion are reducing too. So these are relative rates rather than absolute rates? Meaning, for instance, an American 'poor child' will still have huge benefits copared to a child from Zambia? Interesting stuff maybe, but you have to take these facts in context.

The 'bottom line', Alex. Greed. Me, me, me. More, more, more. Fuck you, I'm all right. And it fuckin' stinks to high heaven, imo. It's also about ideals and values like equal human rights, freedom of thought, conscience and religion, as well as unprecented standards of living. For all its flaws - and there are many - Western civilization is still a model that millions of people around the world look up to. Agreed. Also I don't think 'Western civilisation' and 'American civilisation' are synonymous. I think Western Europe has got the balance between capitalism and socialism much better than the US. Which is why I dispair at so many people looking West for inspiration - they (the States) should be looking at us. That's not to say that many great things have come from America though, obviously. Would Detroit have been allowed to happen here, or in Holland, Germany, or France? Quips about Boro aside, I don't think so.

Loving those photos Dr KN and HF.

Really, really, lemon squeally. Who is bigger in your opinion then ? Wigan, having sold one of our best players to them ? leauge tables leazes, it's all about those damn league tables. Not crowd size, not misty eyed memories, not nothing but league tables. I'm sure teams like European double champions forest have old timers who still consider forest a big club. Ask yourself which fans, Wigan or us are watching the better teams / better football week in week out. you are talking successful here, not the size of the club. Did that make Wimbledon one of the biggest clubs in the country when they won the FA Cup ? Don't talk tosh man. I agree comletely with LM on this. We are a top 5 club in terms of potential, that fact HAS to be recognise by any person that owns us. Are Sunderland 'bigger' than us because they are in a higher league? Are they bollocks, they are just currently more successful at this present moment. Left to CT's management, we'd be the best run club in the conference.

It's possible for two people to have good jobs in a relationship you know, you're clearly still smarting after the Winn's solicitor/ 'I make 100K as a taxi driver' discussions. All I'll say now is we'll see what happens. If I knew you I'd be happy to lay on a big bet that Hughton will not succeed in the Premiership. Btw, my recommendation for the replacement of Robson was Martin O'Neill (a recognised manager) - he's doing a good job for Villa isn't he? What was yours at the time - the cleaning lady?

According to Booby Moncur (at the game) it was the players that didnt turn up, in particular Jonas. You're a parody of yourself tbh. You can just make your point without being such a tedious little schoolgirl Let me spell it out for you. It is evident to anyone who watches him play that Nicky Butt is finished. Chris Hughton put Butt on for no apparent reason. Butt came on and gifted the opposing team a needless free-kick from which they scored. What else is left to say? That's even before talking about how he decided to put Simpson on the wrong side when we had a perfectly good left-back on the bench and brought on the absolutely worthless Leon Best (and let's not forget it was Hughton who bought the plodder in the first place) just when we needed urgency. Already lads in this thread who were at the match say Best made a big difference when he came on He doesn't know what he is doing. Hughton is not a good manager and it is only by virtue of us having a significantly better squad than the rest of the dross in this division that we are top. A bag of rocks could do his job at this point. He will be caught out in truly monumental fashion when we return to the PL (just as he was when he was "managing" the squad in Kinnear's absence) and he will be out of a job by December when we are getting humped week in and week out, and the fans begin to turn on Fat Mike again and he needs another sacrificial lamb. I don't need a crystal ball to see this and neither do you. Hughton is no good. Diasagree and time will tell We need to add a real manager Real??? A Souness, Daglish, Allardyce etc etc another big money manager who will piss more big money on more big flops to our wish list of "midfielders who can actually pass, strikers who can actually score, an owner who actually knows how to run a club." p.s. Jonas was one of our best players on the night and had a class assist to put us ahead. Take off your blinders man. They were not my blinkers, they were Bobby Moncurs blinkers, as I stated in my opening line but dont let that get in the way of a good sulk. It may have escaped your notice CT, but Kenny Dalglish was one of the top 2 achieving managers in this country when he was appointed. I never cease to be amazed by the amount of people who slate this appointment, then moan on about the club "failing to attract top managers" This may be the case now, but it certainly was not the case then, when the club was backing their managers, bringing top players to the club and playing regularly in europe Thats exactly my point Leazes. People call for "real" / "top" managers but that doesnt mean they bring success. Whereas you really believe that someone like Hughton is the answer? Incredible. Well, since Keegans first stint Ive seen countless big names try and fail and fail and fail. But here go, the thick delusional geordies once again calling for another "real" manager to drain away any money we have left. Once again setting ourselves up as a laughing stock before we are even promoted. Who do you want this time Renton....Strachan, Bruce, Allardyce........ Incredible. Robson - you know, that proven manger who is the only one since Keegan to deliver? The manager is by far the most important job in any football club imo. Your argument that we should just employ any bugger to fill this role regardless of their CV is frankly unbelieveable, despite other big name managers not being successful in the past. You say you were once a CEO and are now a (happy) taxi driver? I can see why it didn't work out for you tbh.

According to Booby Moncur (at the game) it was the players that didnt turn up, in particular Jonas. You're a parody of yourself tbh. You can just make your point without being such a tedious little schoolgirl Let me spell it out for you. It is evident to anyone who watches him play that Nicky Butt is finished. Chris Hughton put Butt on for no apparent reason. Butt came on and gifted the opposing team a needless free-kick from which they scored. What else is left to say? That's even before talking about how he decided to put Simpson on the wrong side when we had a perfectly good left-back on the bench and brought on the absolutely worthless Leon Best (and let's not forget it was Hughton who bought the plodder in the first place) just when we needed urgency. Already lads in this thread who were at the match say Best made a big difference when he came on He doesn't know what he is doing. Hughton is not a good manager and it is only by virtue of us having a significantly better squad than the rest of the dross in this division that we are top. A bag of rocks could do his job at this point. He will be caught out in truly monumental fashion when we return to the PL (just as he was when he was "managing" the squad in Kinnear's absence) and he will be out of a job by December when we are getting humped week in and week out, and the fans begin to turn on Fat Mike again and he needs another sacrificial lamb. I don't need a crystal ball to see this and neither do you. Hughton is no good. Diasagree and time will tell We need to add a real manager Real??? A Souness, Daglish, Allardyce etc etc another big money manager who will piss more big money on more big flops to our wish list of "midfielders who can actually pass, strikers who can actually score, an owner who actually knows how to run a club." p.s. Jonas was one of our best players on the night and had a class assist to put us ahead. Take off your blinders man. They were not my blinkers, they were Bobby Moncurs blinkers, as I stated in my opening line but dont let that get in the way of a good sulk. It may have escaped your notice CT, but Kenny Dalglish was one of the top 2 achieving managers in this country when he was appointed. I never cease to be amazed by the amount of people who slate this appointment, then moan on about the club "failing to attract top managers" This may be the case now, but it certainly was not the case then, when the club was backing their managers, bringing top players to the club and playing regularly in europe Thats exactly my point Leazes. People call for "real" / "top" managers but that doesnt mean they bring success. Whereas you really believe that someone like Hughton is the answer? Incredible.

According to Booby Moncur (at the game) it was the players that didnt turn up, in particular Jonas. You're a parody of yourself tbh. You can just make your point without being such a tedious little schoolgirl Let me spell it out for you. It is evident to anyone who watches him play that Nicky Butt is finished. Chris Hughton put Butt on for no apparent reason. Butt came on and gifted the opposing team a needless free-kick from which they scored. What else is left to say? That's even before talking about how he decided to put Simpson on the wrong side when we had a perfectly good left-back on the bench and brought on the absolutely worthless Leon Best (and let's not forget it was Hughton who bought the plodder in the first place) just when we needed urgency. Already lads in this thread who were at the match say Best made a big difference when he came on He doesn't know what he is doing. Hughton is not a good manager and it is only by virtue of us having a significantly better squad than the rest of the dross in this division that we are top. A bag of rocks could do his job at this point. He will be caught out in truly monumental fashion when we return to the PL (just as he was when he was "managing" the squad in Kinnear's absence) and he will be out of a job by December when we are getting humped week in and week out, and the fans begin to turn on Fat Mike again and he needs another sacrificial lamb. I don't need a crystal ball to see this and neither do you. Hughton is no good. Diasagree and time will tell We need to add a real manager Real??? A Souness, Daglish, Allardyce etc etc another big money manager who will piss more big money on more big flops to our wish list of "midfielders who can actually pass, strikers who can actually score, an owner who actually knows how to run a club." p.s. Jonas was one of our best players on the night and had a class assist to put us ahead. Take off your blinders man. They were not my blinkers, they were Bobby Moncurs blinkers, as I stated in my opening line but dont let that get in the way of a good sulk. I was at the match and thought Bobby Moncur was talking bollocks after the game like (on the coach home). Hughton's substitutions have been poor all season imo. Why does he never give Ranger a chance? And why the fuck did he put that useless ginger-haired twat Butt on? We are fucked with Hughton in the premiership, simple as.

Something like that. Bit rich coming from a bunch of fuckers who took the best part of 120 years to win their one and only cup. Aye, that banner was sad as fuck. We beat them 11-1 on the trophy side and their's is only the League cup ffs. I enjoyed yesterday a lot. 'We'll meet again' at the end had the smogs rattled like - also couldn't believe their were so many empty seat for their 'derby'. SMB (Sad Middlesbrough Bastards).