Makom

I claim no insight beyond what's already been confirmed by a cursory review of what both their own players and manager have said, and what all the pundits and commentators said, during the season. I obviously didn't watch every minute of Burnley's season, but I watched enough (including at least three games on full Game of the Day replays) to know that if people really want to keep claiming they have a more convincing analysis of what went wrong in their season than their own staff and the people whose job it is to do so say happened, they really need to start bringing some evidence to the table that backs up their theories.

This isn't solely about Ings, this was originally about Burnley's inability to score enough goals to stay up, which for whatever reason people seem to be doggedly trying to prove isn't the reason they went down, against all available evidence. When it's widely acknowledged that they were having no difficulty either keeping clean sheets or in creating chances, then frankly I can't see why Ings, as their main forward in a one upfront formation, isn't largely to blame. Not solely of course, but from a player contribution perspective, which was the whole point of the players wages thread, he definitely is. And it's precisely because he will be able to walk away from that team and walk into another PL club, while most of his team mates have to stay at Burnley, that shows quite conclusively that there is currently no real relationship between what happens in the real world, and what happens in football (which was also the premise of the wages thread).

It's the people who think players live in a different world just because they're PL footballers that are deluded. I'm sure it's not a surprise to people that actually pay attention, that most players check in on the forums, although admittedly they're not likely to see this one as representative - the first thing you notice is how quiet it is compared to the others out there. But that does have the unfortunate effect that the presence of one nutter, like whoever it is that keeps calling him a coward (his name escapes me right now), will gain unwarranted prominence. And sure, he's not going to be using it solely to make the decision, but would it influence him if he was undecided? You bet. It's simple human nature. Unlike Jonas, Krul will actually be facing that decision with a genuine choice to make.

I got that. Whatever, I'm sure the fact that the most mentions Krul gets on this forum is that he's a coward is sure to make him stay.

Oh shut up. Half of my post was about the new manager (the topic of the thread), the other half was about something that was only announced today. If you want people to post things more relevant or timely, then buy a fucking time machine and tell us who got the fucking job, so we can discuss that instead. But not too much though, obviously, wouldn't want to deprive you of the buzz of only ever reading new information or completely original thoughts.

As if the content of his post had anything to do with why he was giving me shit. He's clearly been saving this up, and I know exactly what motivated it. He must genuinely think people are thick not to notice it. He certainly thinks I am, that's for sure.

You do realise people here can quickly see everything another person posts? http://www.toontastic.net/board/user/62-kevin-carrs-gloves/ Feel free to highlight which of your posts you believe to be extremely interesting/entertaining. Granted, some of them show an undercurrent of jealous nastiness that's the hallmark of your kin, which can be entertaining in a sick kind of way, but that's about it.

Well Tim Krul's obviously gone, and who could blame him. I posted a thread pleading him not to go, and someone thought it was a bright idea to delete it. Nice one. Way to make the guy feel wanted.

It's as likely to be McClaren as anyone else, but as history has shown, trying to predict who these clowns will appoint is pointless in of itself, it's always been someone from left field. McLaren certainly fits the established pattern when we're not promoting a coach or club legend. He's unemployed, cheap, desperate, not foreign, and experienced. To a buffoon like Charnley he will even look successful, something that prior appointments have lacked for all their experience. Even though it's obvious that it's his failures rather than his successes that speak well to his likely ability to get a club like NUFC to compete in the PL. We certainly don't have a fucking chance of getting anyone decent who you could count on a top 10 finish - even West Ham are a better prospect for a manager wanting a PL club this season - European football, owners who want to spend money, and a board who don't just talk about wanting good football, they act on it.

And yet, your entire argument rested on their supposed inability to create chances. Funny how that went out of the window once we started dealing in facts?

I've cherry picked nothing. Finding quotes to support my position is ridiculously easy - because it's the truth. You and Strawb can theorise whatever you like using whatever reasoning you like, without supporting quotes from people who actually get paid to analyse football or indeed from the people involved, it's piss poor. And I see no conflict between Dyche praising a clean sheet and them going down after not scoring enough goals. Ings can feel pissed off all he wants, the reality is any spending Burnley might have done would likely have been to buy a better striker, especially since he said at the start of the season he wanted away, and as can be seen, they were quite happy with how the rest of the team was performing. As for the last line, there's no fair way to measure individual performance on the pitch, so that's a complete non-starter.

I thought you read this forum regularly? If you did, you would have understood what that meant. As for "can't be arsed with the rest", well, I'm truly shocked.

Ray, I get plenty of traction here with reasonable people who are interested in having a conversation. The only people here calling me a mackem cunt are the ones who you'd never be able to have a decent conversation with in the first place - the clue being in the fact they think I'm a mackem. In reality, as seen in here, the most mackem thing I've said on the forum is that finishing above them while getting spanked in the derby multiple times in a row is nothing to crow about. A rationale person interested in debate would be able to handle reading something like that and would make some kind of case for how it's wrong (impossible in that instance), instead of going off on a Newcaslte-Online style panty wetting fit, getting all hysterical and calling me nasty names like a bunch of fucking children.

It is when it's literally the only thing he's said here about football, followed up with the claim I know nothing about football when I criticised it, after which he launched into this thread to jump on the bandwagon (your confusion is likely down to the fact the original argument was a few days ago - it's clearly festered with him). I was happy to just keep insulting him in ChezGiven style in an attempt to make my point, but he seemed to quickly tire of responding in kind with his wierd 'so you lie pundits do you!' angle, and foolishly tried to return to his original point about Burnley using something like a reasoned argument (which is definitely not Chez style). Which is where we now find ourselves.

To prove Strawb is a know nothing boring cunt. Is there any other reason for a discussion on Toonstastic?

Dyche was also pretty sure what went wrong after their 0-1 home defeat to relegation rivals to Leicester, also in April.... The BBC pundit writing up the match also seemed to agree.... but pundits eh, what are they like!

Y'know what, since no quotes I might find would convince you that your personal theories are bollocks, let's forget pundits completely. Let's take our cue from what Burnley themselves said. Here's some extracts from their post match comments from their 0-0 home draw with Spurs in April, the sort of game they should have been scoring in if they wanted to survive, as by then it was pretty obvious they were in deep shit. It seems to me like they don't agree with your theory that it was the team not creating chances that was to blame. It's no surprise to anyone I'm sure that a promoted team like Burnley goes with one up front and tries to be hard to beat, but likewise nobody is really surprised if they go down when their strikers fail to take their chances.

Yes.

When it's an issue as obvious as the reason for Burnley's relegation and they're all in agreement on it, then yes, yes I do. And I certainly do over some idiot on the internet who claims they're wrong and that I know nothing about football for not agreeing with him.

Yes, you really are. I don't see anyone else here doggedly standing by the idiotic notion that all football pundits and commentators everywhere know less about Burnley FC's season than you.

For proving your point about Burnley wrong? Pretty much all of them. Did we not already establish this? Isn't that why you're here? We can argue all night about Burnley, but you're still going to come out of it looking like an idiot, no matter how many times you call me a bellend.

I think we're getting closer to the reason why you don't post more.

I doubt it, as you said you rarely post on here, so who's got any idea what you think, let alone whether they agree with you? Other than your view on Burnley and my own worth as a human being, I have literally no idea what you think about anything. Unless you've got a blog somewhere I've not found?

What on Earth is an anti-fan?

Not that I know of. Is that a sign of autism, not agreeing with you?