Makom

Is Gemmil making a move on my mam, or did I read that wrong? And Dave, aye, fuck off. I've not avoided a single one of your points, you just don't like the answers. So in the interests of not boring the fuck out of everyone anymore, we're done here. It's OVER!

We also topped the 'distance travelled by away fans per goal scored' league. Another triumph for John 'one of us' Carver. He feels our pain. He really does.

Go easy on him, two beat downs in one day could push him to the brink. He could go full 'logical paradox' on your asses.

OK, I suppose it's no surprise you returned to simple restatement. I've had a look for some evidence myself, and it appears that Chelsea thought Green played well enough to earn their backup spot. Not exactly high praise for a proven PL keeper who is nowhere near retirement age, but it's the best I could find to back up your theory that he deserves another chance in the PL. It is all couched in the language of the summer transfer window however, inserted as a factoid in an interview given by him, so I guess we'll see next season whether this supposed interest is merely the product of his agent, who will undoubtedly lose out if the more likely option pans out. It's quite funny to read the interview, I recommend it - he's got a quite deluded view of their collective performance over the season (they tired their hardest in 99% of games! they only had 4 bad performces!), which unsurprisingly won't be found being replicated by any serious analyst, because it's bonkers. On the other issue, now you're back tracking from the OPTA angle, let's hear what excuse you'll offer up this time around for not being able to explain in any detail how the non-stats based part of your proposed performance related plan would work.

Being run brilliantly until 2004? Jesus. Is this the same NUFC that was operating an empty office in Gibraltar well before then? The same NUFC paying its directors eye-watering dividends while still sitting on £100m+ debts well before then? The same NUFC where its meagre operating profits were being spent entirely on dividends to directors, who were already raking it in through other channels, such as the infamous warehouse scam, well before 2004? The same directors who were having to sell their shares to bail out their other failing business interests? The same directors who were paying themselves the same as those in charge of the clubs who'd been in the top 4 for years? I just had a quick scan for any sign that I'd missed some of this alleged praise for his skills as an executive that Shepherd received during this era, all I found was the scathing criticism for being the very model of a fat cat businessman that I'd recalled from the time. Shepherd was fucking coining it in during that period, and this was clearly entirely down to his assumption that we'd be in the CL. Throwing money at Souness was his desperate attempt to get back in, and we would have failed had he been allowed to keep chasing that dream.

That's you providing evidence? Simply restating what you said? Fucking hell man, and you call me obtuse. I didn't ask you to put your theories into simpler language - they weren't exactly indecipherable before, no matter how many times you claimed I missed the point.

You're still not getting it. It doesn't matter how much you're earning or how big the debt is, it's whether it's manageable - in our case, it was not, clearly, and it all started to unravel once we failed to establish ourselves as a top 4 club. I have absolutely no recollection of Shepherd being praised for his management in that period, quite the reverse in fact, but if you've got any links....

That advert is so ridiculous, I initially thought it was a joke. Nobody could hope to meet its requirements, not even a genius like myself. Not while Ashley is running NUFC and Lee Ryder is your boss.

So, all the debt before we got to the CL was entirely stadium related, and had nothing to do with any other matter, footballing or otherwise? is that what you're saying?

Because the scenarios where Player X is blameless offered up so far have been piss poor weak. This is why you fail to hear me whenever I ask for some evidence to back up your theories, just like you just failed to hear me about your OPTA performance related pay plan. You don't so much fail to get my points, as deliberately sidestep them, when it's convenient. That's what is tedious about debating with you.

'Big' debt's got nothing to do with, it's whether it was manageable. Spending nothing even though you're in the CL is a clear sign that the club was already in the shit regarding managing the debt, and what followed in the years after - rising debt and all of Freddy's actions regarding paying Peter by robbing Paul - was merely confirmation that were on a Leeds shaped trajectory.

Nah, I'm going to kick back and wait for my betters like you to do it. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on whether or not Rangers have a good case for nullifying this 7 year notice period, or whether or not AO could have put enough pressure on Puma to force them to pull out of what appears to be a lucrative relationship for them. Or maybe you've got some deep insight into some other aspect of the ongoing conversation. I'm all ears.

I can be if you want me to be? It's 50 for fuming, 100 for outraged.....

Sure. Your motives are easier to decipher than a toddler's, which is apt. And if I'm boring, that must mean you're a riot of interesting information and anecdotes, right? It's just a shame it appears you post those somewhere else, because you sure as hell aren't posting it here. Instead of being such a petty cunt, why not try and participate in this thread with something interesting and informative?

It's either something I've said about the Scots, or something I've said about people who are still financially supporting Ashley out of an emotional attachment to the club. Or both. It's got fuck all to do with finding the discussion of Ashley's finances to be 'blah', that's for sure, because if he didn't like reading about that, what the fuck's he even doing in this thread?

You're Scottish, or at least you defend them as if you were one, and you certainly live there, do you not? Whatever, you're a petty cunt, whatever it says on your birth certificate. Whatever your problem is with me, it's not based on anything I've said in this thread, it's based on some Scottish style cuntery deriving from something I've previously said to piss you off sepcifically, which you're too cowardly to have out with me on an honest basis.

He was arguing that us reaching the CL was down to unsustainable debt, basically we were about to do a Leeds. Which is pretty hard to argue against, now we know what Shepherd was up to with the finances. None of that excuses Ashley's later failures of course, but as I predicted, you're getting absolutely no traction by portraying Ashley's 'debt' as the same thing as Shepherd's of the Glazer's, etc.

KCG once again proving the stereotypes about his nation are entirely apt. Petty selfish attention seeking cunts, to a man. EDIT: As does his entire posting history of today. The oldest habits die the hardest it seems.

Green's career thus far is the product of his own choices, ergo you arguing his choices should have no bearing on his future career would appear to be one of those logical fallacies you hate so much. You're entitled to believe he performed well this season, and no doubt that can be proven with one set of OPTA stats, while ignoring others. I'm sure there's no reasoned reply to that which you'd accept, and I'm sure we'll never see you explain how an OPTA based performance pay scheme would work in enough detail to critique it. I'm sure if he's played as well as you think he did, he'll soon be joining another PL club, although it will be interesting to see which one, given there's nobody in the bottom half really chucking any money around this time, except perhaps West Ham, who undoubtedly wouldn't want him back.

Well, it depends what the contract involved. If SD had to build a warehouse and establish a distribution network to take on Ranger's entire merchandising operation, then a 7 year termination seems reasonable in lieu of recouping the cost outlay (which Rangers obviously wouldn't be able to afford). However, if (as I suspect) he didn't have to do anything even remotely like that, then I'm sure the new Rangers board will be able to get that struck down in a court, as it's totally unreasonable. Hence the references to valid/enforceable terms. The Puma deal is hardly a surprise, without anyone making any serious efforts to toxify their brand due to their association with SD/Ashley (as I suggested to the AO.com head shed), then why wouldn't they renew? They've obviously been making money out of the deal somewhere, even though when asked, every NUFC claims they never buy a shirt these days. I doubt they have a 7 year deal though, it wouldn't make sense to either party.

Rob Green got relegated after he chose not to stay with newly promoted West Ham, and instead opted for QPR, who had just avoided relegation on the last day. You don't need to be a genius to figure out what probably motivated that switch, so I feel no sympathy for him. And this is now the second time he's been relegated with them, and the fourth time overall, having also been relegated with West Ham and Norwich. I think it's a hard sell to claim he's proven PL quality and absolutely deserves another PL club based on making the 2nd highest number of saves while playing for a side who were being scored against for fun. The prevalence of OPTA stats being used to prove any old shit over good old fashioned analysis is precisely why I said any system of performance related pay would be unworkable. Someone a while back gave a great example - the passes completed stat completely ignores things like distance or difficulty. Players efficiently popping the ball around 5 yards in their own half while achieving the square root of fuck all in terms of winning the game would get paid handsomely in such a system, while the midfielder who only completes 50% of his passes, but wins you games because one of them is a beauty to the feet of a striker running through on goal, would get the basic wage.

Joey Barton to be released. He's 33 in September, surely going to hang up his boots now?

Exhibit A for the case for an age limit on the wearing of replica tops

What did you think he thought he might have meant?

No, he asked why any proven player would join us, you answered that he'd be on better wages than at Burnley and the stuff about future managers & signings. It's pretty obvious you were talking about the prospect of Ings choosing us over Spurs, in the context of there being an active bid for him on the table (but yes, I've got no idea why they're paying a fee if the compo works out less).