Howaythetoon

Aye send them in, howaythetoon_nufc1@yahoo.co.uk BTW why can't you register? Cheers 51799[/snapback] Il email them to you tomorrow night when i have more time on my hands. When i try to register it says "no throw away accounts", so i presume that means no hotmail accounts etc, so i tried my uni email and it said i will recieve an email to activate my account but it never came through. 51910[/snapback] Cheers Howay Man, I look forward to them. What name did you register under BTW and I'll activate your account for you.

What's so bad about Barnes? So he can't read an autocue? Hang him... At least he's real and so is his show, unlike half the bubble-wrapped crap passing off as football shows like MOTD and MOTD2, not to mention the dreadful Premiership. Plus I've met Barnes and he's a top bloke. Very knowledgeable about the game in my opinion and very likeable. I don't agree with his opinion on black managers not getting a chance because of their skin color mind, I agree with Chris Kamara - most of them don't even bother trying. Although I'm sure racism exists in boardrooms, but today if you're good enough, it doesn't matter what you skin color happens to be or whether you're British or a foreigner. The way it should be. I think Ian Wright is OK too, when not 'presenting', too false. But in generall he's OK.

Aye send them in, howaythetoon_nufc1@yahoo.co.uk BTW why can't you register? Cheers

Why was Jesus weaping Renton? 50667[/snapback] Them ferk off nails probably didn't help. The big fanny...

Juninho aside, and maybe Ravanelli, who did he attract? Most of them were mercnaries anyway which suggest the money being offered was what attracted those players, and nor Robson himself. At one point Middlesbrough's wage bill was bigger than both Arsenal and Liverpool's and only second to Man Utd and our own in the lattter parts of the 90s. Shearer has attracted not only genuine quality, bit top-class professionals. I think Shearer will shock us all I really do, I'd never write that man off regardless of what he chose to do. back on topic, I think it's unfair to judge Chopra based on fits and starts, just 16 games and only 4 full starts. He has the talent, everyone recognises this within the club, Shearer says he's one of the best natural finisher's he's seen but he's struggling to adapt from reserve team pace to Premiership pace and as a result he's looking lightweight. At his age now, one has to worry because some players in his age group have over 100 Premiership games behind them, yet at 21 he's being asked to suddenly jump up from effectively reserve team football which as anyone will tell you is slow as ferk, to the high intensity of the Premiership. I'd like to see him given 20 games but we can't really blood youngsters through, especially in attacking positions, when we are in dire need of wins and some kind of consistency. It's tough and I feel for the lad because he loves this club, he's anotehr Clarkie, Toon daft and wants this so bad.

I watched the 4-3 win over Man Utd again last night and that Robert was 5 times the player he was in his last 12-15 months at the club. He rarely wasted a pass, all his crosses and set-peices were brilliant and he was involved throughout and he actually won a few tackles with Beckham. I also noted just how mobile Shearer was back then, compared to now. He was immense in that game and everywhere. Rob Lee was also canny good as was Andy Griffin who looked a very good right-back. Dabizas and O'Brien constantly messed up the offside trap though but their last minute defending was brilliant. Bellamy was also brilliant, gave Blanc nightmares. What struck me most though, that team, give or take Bellamy, Robert, Shearer and Given, were distinctly average where as Man Utd had Van Nistelrooy, Cole, Giggs, Keane, Beckham and later on Scholes and we kept the ball superbly well and Acuna, why didn't he play more? He was brilliant. We've stagnated a lot and for me, watching that match, Robert stagnated the most. He was brilliant in that game and that was him at his best, unplayable. I think after his first season and all the rave reviews and adulation, he kind of thought he had made it and probably took it easier in games knowing a set-piece or one bit of magic could make up for an all-round lack of application. Don't get me wrong he had been a bloody good player for us overall, but watching that match last night then remembering some of his latter performances, I felt pissed off and cheated in a way because h had talent and he was much much better than he actually performed many a time for us. I don't know how, why and when it all went wrong for him but it did and now at 30? I think it was the best time to change things and play with different players, though he would still be a good squad player. At what price though given his constant sniping and back-talk to the media? I know Shay Given for one was pissed off reading Robert's stuff before big matches, feeling he was undermining the team and playing for himself and not the team while everyone else was sweating their balls off. Anyway, we have Luque now and N'Zogbia's looking good.

Speaking on Revisita De La Liga last week, Luque said he was bought to play left of a three pronged attack with him, Shearer and Owen and that he is a striker. (can't see that working myself) However he did also concede he can play left wide but he's first a striker and has always been one and that he has learned a lot from Shearer about playing centrally and other such things. BTW one of the reasons he signed was Shearer who he says is famous in Spain and highly regarded as a centre-forward. So that's Owen, Parker, Nobby (Shearer rang him when Liverpool were interested and told him to hang on because Newcastle wanted him back) and now Luque. Obviously Souness also played a role as he spoke to them all, outlined his plans and sold the club to them too but you have to say, this bodes well for Shearer's career as a manager, him being able to entice players of such quality. I personally would like to see Luque up top with Owen, he's different, not a conventional forward and since we signed him I must have downloaded all his goals it seems and I can't wait, he looks an awesome player and if he produces the kind of stuff he did in Spain, we'll have done well in capturing him because he looks the part. Those goals against Real Madrid, power, pace, technical ability and cool finishes, outsripping Salgado for pace and power, one of the best full-backs in the game, as if he wasn't there. I've also done a lot of reading up about him and spoken to some Depor fans, he seems to have the right attitude, he loves being involved and wants to score and create and be a big star in the Premiership. Another good sign, he actually saught out the advice of Englishman and well known media man in Spain Chris Robinson (I think that's his name) to get a low down on NUFC, the City and our fans and he was obviously left impressed by what Robinson had to say, saying how passionate we were, what a great footballing City it was and how big a club Newcastle were. That tells me that he's not just here for the money but wants to do well. I think he'll be a big hit on Tyneside I really do because he has what is needing in our League, pace and power and a great left foot. The Depo fans reckon the Premiership is ideal for him and he'll score and create even more because it's much more attack orientated.

Dyer wasn't risked because of the pitch at Blundell Park. He should play a few reserve games first anyway, has he ever played reserve games on the way back from an injury?

Is there a forum you haven't posted on Decky?

If the language above was used on NO, HTT would wash their mouths out with soap, smack their bottoms and send them to bed with no tea. For my money, he'd enjoy it a little too much and all. 49185[/snapback] Your avatar would probably be deemed offensive too .. 49239[/snapback] Too right, hate the royals me.

And how would you know? Backseat drivers eh...

For being a bully and a bigot, mainly. 49019[/snapback] I thought you meant a successful manager, who was such a good manager, players followed him from club to club to play for him for a moment .... Read his books. And those by others who talk about him. Clough was no bully. He is, sadly, the sort of manager that Souness can only dream of being 49052[/snapback] Cloughie was no different to most people of that era, indeed we are all bigoted and prejudiced in one form or another even today. I know I am and anyone who says they aren't, are liars.

Isn't America meant to be a classless society? The place with the worst racism problem in the world. 49229[/snapback] Are they really a classless society? You don't buy into all that 'free society' shite do you?

Positive discrimination in my opinion defeats the purpose and will only serve to inflame the issue even more. While I can see why PD is used, I just think it's a defeatest way of looking at things, a sweeping it under the carpet kind of thing if you like. In fact, is it not kind of racist in a way? If for example, myself (a white bloke) and a black bloke went for the same job and he got it because of his skin color, is that not racist against me? Is that not like the dark old days when black people and ethnic minorities were refused jobs because of their skin color? Or am I reading it all wrong? Either way I don't like it. But what are the other options? How do you get more black people and ethnic minorities into white dominated workforces, institutions and into offices of 'power'? I think the Asian community have shown the way. They prioritise education and good work ethic and as a result they now have their fingers in many pies to use an old cliche, if they can do it then so can black people and other minorities. And it's not just a black/minority issue either. As someone who grew up in a white dominated area where 70% of the population were unemployed and lacking basic education, it's very much an issue for many people, regardless of race. One of the arguments on here is that it's tougher for black people or ethnic minorities to "get on in life" than it is for white people, that may be the case in some instances sure, but it's like that for many white people too. For me, and this is opening up a whole new debate here, it's a class issue in my opinion. Take down those class barriers and you will defeat racism or combat it effectively and in doing so combat a lot of other equally disturbing issues that exist in society. The class issue is a bigger issue than racism and is much more damaging to society. Ironically I have found that those without good jobs and a good education (the lower-class or working-class) are less likely to be racist than those with good jobs and a good education behind them. Which could explain why there hasn't been a black Prime Minister candidate or a Black Mayor of London just to use an example. While in areas where I grew up you will almost certainly hear the phrases "darkie", "packie" etc. where as you wouldn't in areas like Jesmond for example, I would say these areas and these people are less likely to be racist than the more affluent areas. Or less likely to be racist than one would imagine or consider given the phrase that people use in the type of area where I grew up to describe, say for example, an Asian. Where I grew up an Asian is a "darkie", is that racism or vernacular? Hard to say but I will say that we must not confuse slang with deep rooted racism. For me you will never ever stop someone from calling an Asian for example a "darkie" or vice versa, you will never stamp that out just like you will never stamp out someone calling an obese person "fatty" or someone wearing specs "geppy" or "4 eyes". It's at the top, the real deep rooted racism whereby someone doesn't get a job based on their skin color, despite being perfectly qualified and experienced, that needs stamped out, that is bad for society. That's the real areas of change we need to inforce, but not by positive discrimation because you're creating a whole new culture of inadvertant discrimination that will probably pop up in years yet passed and bite society on the arse. If you are given people a leg up you're creating a lazy, dependent society devoid of endevour, ambition and the will to succeed. As already mentioned, Asian people in my experience are ideal templates for other ethnic minorities because these people have not only adapted to our country, they have also changed it and above all else, they play a major role in how we as a nation operate today in the 21st century. People also need to ditch the persecution complexes, the chips on shoulders and stop blaming this and that and looking for excuses. Oh, and bring down the class walls.

They should ban anyone for chanting "easy". Lets hope it's just a fad.

I'm a modern day Keeganite me.

Oh I knew what you meant Alex, I mean just the once is hard to believe, especially given Bez's slant on things... I'm sure it goes on but I've only heard it the once. I was with the bairn as well and that pissed me off more than anything. Hate hearing stuff like that because there is no need for it. Yet where I grew up and when I was growing up I called corner shops darkie shops or Asians darkies and stuff like that and once called a black lass at school a "black bitch" and get a ticking off for it. I was about 9 or 10 at the time and there was never any mention of racism about my remarks, just that it was nasty so I never thought anything of it. I didn't even know there was a word that existed called racism. It wasn't until I got older and berfiended a few "darkies" as I used to call them that I learned not to look at people as a skin color. It's sad really and really stupid, the kind of stupidness of poking yourself in the eye to see if it hurts. Why? Anyway...

Yep just the once, mind I'm in the Milburn L7 where they are all posh. A few away from home like but in my experience I can honestly say we do not have a problem of any kind whatsoever and that's not me being pro fellow fans because in my eyes half of them that follow the lads are arseholes, pissy moaning whinging twats. And as a City, well having lived in "mixed" areas I'd say we don't have a real probklem with racism in that department either. Lets face facts, they will never ever stamp it out, you can't force people to be nice to other people, people will say whatever they want, whether it's racist, or abuse of someones weight, hair color or looks. It's a sad fact of life. By making a big issue of it though you give these tossers some kind of significance and power because they want people to be aware of others' skin color. I was once at the match with the bairn (nephew) and instead of saying black man or black player he said "the player with the funny hair". That player was Bernard. Now there is nothing wrong with saying black player but I was well pleased that my nephew didn't look at someone as a skin color.

Andy Cole, Sir Les, Bernard, Solano, Asprilla - what do they all have in common? Massive heroes on Tyneside. Butt Viana O'Brien Barton Peacock (Darren) Hooper Marcelino Robert What do they all have in common? Abused by Toon fans at one time or another. This whole "is it because they are black" crap is pathetic. If they (the critics) don't like you, they don't like you. Regardless of color, creed, cost, background or nationality. I have only ever heard one racist remark at St. James' Park - directed at Uriah Rennie. Someone called him a black bastard and myself and others quickly told this cretin what we though about him and he shut up like the coward he is. That was at the Barca friendly a few years back. Newcastle fans are the most tolerable fans of any, we have been praised many a time not just by fellow (rival) fans but by the likes of Henry, kick it out and show racism the red card. We love our football and couldn't give a damn about anything else and if we don't like someone, well we can be right twats but never racist. Of course there will be racists at SJP and in the ranks but then I could say that of every walk of life so it's not as if we are unuique here, we aren't. By making such pathetic assumptions you undermine and patronise the efforts of others and indeed fellow fans who have done a lot to stamp it out. To such an extent I have only heard one racist comment at SJP in over 10 years of going. That's a miracle given how half the fans are racist and out to abuse all the black players... Talent is what brings adulation or scorn. For every Faye there is a white Faye and a Sir Les so it's a nothing argument and one I take serious offence at because it just dilutes the message and makes the issue seem more significant than what it is while the real culprits, the racists can hide. Don't tar people with a brush or pre-judge, that's as bad as racism in my book.

Club speil to wind the Mackems up man.

Is correct. I've also read how groups of blokes with spades and stucks would march into each other's Cities and have a pagger on a regular basis, a bit like a modern day Hooligan meet-up. Like I said it's a fascinating rivalry with so many different aspects to it and why and how it came about. People talk about the Old Firm derby, the Milan derby and the Real/Barca games but if you want a proper derby, then the Tyne-Wear really is something unique. From what I've read the football rivalry was friendly to start out with, as if both sets of people downed weapons just for the match then resumed battle after the game. Then it become a football rivalry and now it's a free for all, it's a City thing, a work thing, a family thing even (don't inter-breed man...), a people thing, a business thing, and you could maybe argue a politics thing as well with Sunderland council still smarting over the Metro and such. I know I'm biased, but it pisses all over others in my opinion. Also, and I'll be slated for this no doubt, but unless you are a Geordie/Mackem or have Geordie/Mackem blood or were brought up in this envornment from an early age, I'm sorry but the derby day for you is just another match because you'll never feel what I feel or what my Mackem counterpart will and that's not me being arrogant or boastful, it's the truth I'm afraid. You'll want to win badly more than against other sides of course, you'll share that but not that belly churning ache that sits in your stomach like a fuck off brick. And in a way, that's the way it should be because if football wasn't a regional thing, well it wouldn't be the game it is would it?

The first ever Tyne-Wear Derby in official League terms was way back in 1898, 6 years after Newcastle United were formed following a merger between Newcastle West End and Newcastle East End. We won that match 3-2 at Roker Park in front of what was then, considered a huge crowd of 25,000 fans. Bear in mind it would have almost certainly have been much bigger but for tax purposes and because visiting sides collected 15% of all gate reciepts, attendance figures were always fiddled. I've read reports where 100,000 fans have attended the Tyne-Wear derby at both grounds. We have the better overall record; P: 135; W: 48; D: 44; L: 43 Some stats/info: The Tyne-Wear Derby has been played a total of 135 times in all competitions with Newcastle marginally having the upper hand having won 5 more than Sunderland. In total there has been 401 goals scored, Newcastle scoring 201 of them and of the 44 draws, only 9 of them have ended goalless. The highest number of goals scored in a single match stands at 10 when the Mackems beat us 9-1 at St. James' Park back in 1908. We had the last laugh though, ending the Season as League Champions. That results stands as their record win in the Derby. Biggest home win: 6-1 (1920-21 Biggest away win: 6-1 (1955-56) Biggest home loss: 9-1 (1908-09) Biggest away loss: 5-0 (1930-31) Highest scoring home draw: 2-2 (1949-50) Highest scoring away draw: 3-3 (1967-68) Highest home attendance: *67,211 (1926-27) Highest away attendance: *68,004 (1949-50) Number of NUFC clean sheets: 30 Number of SAFC clean sheets: 30 Longest unbeaten run: 9 games (1967-78) Longest winless run: 7 games (1957-63) Consecutive wins: 4 games (1992-96) Consecutive losses: 3 games (1922-23, 1904-05) Consecutive draws: 4 games (1985-90) Number of doubles: 9 (2002-03, 1992-93, 1956-57, 1955-56, 1920-21, 1913-14, 1911-12, 1909-10, 1899-00) *Dubious to say the least. Have Sunderland ever been on top? Aye, they actually have 6 League Titles to our 4 and were once known as the bank of England for spending more money on players and wages than any other club. They, like us, despite the rivalry, are a big traditional club with a large following... which has declined in recent years. During the 70s-early-90s there was little to separate the two clubs. Both were riddled with unambitious chairman, decaying satdiums and were both neck and necdk so to speak. Then the 90s come, Sir John Hall, Kevin Keegan and the Premiership and since then, well we have shot off in one way and they haven't budged, when they have (Stadium of Light, flirtation with the Premiership three times) they have always taken one step back (relegation three times etc.) While the two may not be so far off points wise, they just can't compete. They have no European record where as we have played over 100 games in Europe, with only Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal playing more European games than we have in recent years. Budget wise, they can not compete. Attracting players they will never be able to compete and bums on seats, well they can't fill their 48,000 capacity stadium. Also, throughout the history of both club's, Newcastle have always produced some of the country's finest talents where as they haven't produced anyone of note. None that I can recall anyway. Both are footballing mad regions yet we have given the game some of it's greatest players, which of course put us on the footballing map from the off in many ways and ever since they have been playing catch up. They live in our shadow in every way and that's being kind. They know it even if they won't admit it, this gives them that massive chip and insecurity complex that rules their lives like a cold grip and holds their club back like a ball and chairn. The height of their ambition while they were riding 'high' up in 7th while we were down in mid-table was to have one more seat than we have. And they haven't even managed that and even if they did, it would just be one more empty seat today. They are like a tall midget. Odd.

I don't know, I just know our lads were cheered by Mackems on their way back from London following our '32 FA Cup win so I assume it was at some train station that passed through.

The rivalry dates back centuries as already covered. In the 1900s a NUFC Vs Sunderland home match was abandoned due to rioters that spilt out onto the pitch and into the City as well. Reports of up to 100,000 people involved or trying to leg it from the carry on are well documented. As people, as far as I'm aware, there is no love lost. They really hate us, far more than we hate them because, well just look at our City compared to their Town, and our club compared to their club. To a Mackem that would be typical Geordie arrogance but to an outsider that would be spot on. When teams play Sunderland away, their fans often come on to our message boards asking us about places to stay, drink etc. in Newcastle as they just don't fancy a night out in Sunderland. Not all of course, but a lot do. You will find threads on here of that nature probably. Plus, we as a City, people and a club get a lot of positive media coverage in general where as Sunderland just don't, probably unfairly in my opinion to some extents. If you believed everything you read, Sunderland is full of racists, hooligans, kappa wearing slags, charvers and is generally a bit like Royston Vasey where as Newcastle is portrayed as a hip, trendy, happening City with the locals good "craic" and the night life superb and so on. In comparison, Sunderland have nothing. Yet as people we are pretty much the same, same values etc. but they generally have a massive chip on their shoulder and are a lot less welcoming to strangers in my experience. Mackems come to Newcastle everyday to shop and unless they are wearing a Sunderland top and shouting FTM 2-1 no-one bats an eyelid. I've been to Sunderland outside of the match and they just don't like you being in their Town and in their face. They see a Geordie on their territory as a personal affront. I used to work on a van with a mate of mine, delivering stuff and that van had 0191 the extention for Newcastle on the side of it, not to mention a few Toon stickers and we'd get pelted with stones and all kinds. Once we were refused entry to a skip from a red and white clad prick. "You need a permit". "But you're letting other vans through." I've been resfued entry into pubs in Sunderland by bouncers detecting my Geordie accent wich believe it or not, give or take a few words, isn't that far removed from their accent. Although the differences are noticeble if you're a Geordie/Mackem. All in all it's a healthy rivalry, a good one. It's more than football, it's about pride in oneself, ones City and ones fellow people. You have to live it to feel it. It's a strange rivalry though because up until the 90s Mackems were proud to call themselves Geordies and sang "we are the Geordies" and such at Roker Park. Now you sing that you'll get a punch in the face. I believe they wanted an identiy all of their own so used the term Mackem which was an original insult to the people of Sunderland given to them by Geordies. They are strange people are Mackems. On a footballing issue, the two sets of fans would cheer each others team in Cup runs and against Southern teams as recent as the 70s. When we won the FA Cup in 32 Sunderland folked tuned in via radio and were in support of Newcastle, cheering the Newcastle players at the station on their way back to Newcastle Central Station from London as it crossed through Sunderland. It was the same for our Fairs Cup win in 69. If Newcastle were playing away, Sunderland's gate swelled as Geordies flocked in and vice versa. My gandad used to watch Newcastle one week, Sunderland the next and he was a died in the wool Toon fan. As already noted it's a far different rivalry to any in the Country. Rangers and Celtic hinges on religion. Liverpool and Everton inter-City rivalry, the same with Man Utd and Man City and many London teams. With us, well, it's hard to put a finger on it really. It's a unique rivalry, a fascinating one even to an observer. Politics don't really play a part, religion certainly doesn't, football of course does, bit it dates back well before football was even imagined never mind played and it will always exist. Sadly though, for me anyway, it probably means more to them now than it does for us. I mean a few of wor lot are actually hoping we get beat so Souness gets the sack. The gulf between the two Cities and clubs is so huge, a wedge has been driven through it. It's not as intense now in my opinion nor as meaningful. I'm excited and can't wait but if we lose, it won't shatter my week or life. For the Mackems, you feel they esist soley to try and get one up on us, whether it be in football or outside of it. The modern game also plays it's part - with the advent of Sky and the internet and the almost 24-7 coverage, there isn't a sense of the unknowing as there once was. We know Sunderland's team inside out because we watch their games live from the comfort of our homes, we know their fans inside out because we speak to them every day on forums - and vice versa. I would say the derby today is a bit like taking a peep at your Christmas presents when no-one is looking the day before Christams. You can't wait to open them on Christmas day but the suspense isn't quite there, if you know what I mean. Still, wouldn't miss it for the world and I hope we crush the tramps.

Hoy, I'm still around you know. 45723[/snapback] Regularly around 5-6am by any chance, sending nasty PMs to people? 45725[/snapback] Too early for me. I see Hitzfeld today said he's looking to get back into management, have a word with him Isegrim man.