Howaythetoon

I can't programme for toffee man. I'm not the best with graphics either. I build websites, that and usability/information architecture is my forte. I love the whole usability sector of the web. That's probably the only thing keeping me interested in the industry. While we are here, who's up for a discussion on information architecture? Howay, it's a blast. No? Sharks, then?

OH fuck off, you and your jaundiced interpretations, man. Like I said, think what you like, I really couldn't give a damn. I know differently and I suspect others do too and that's all I'm bothered about. And for what it's worth, I left out the bit about N.O because by the time I got round to replying to your post, the thread had took on another direction and I didn't want to go over old wounds if you like. If you find my reponse quite curt, that's because the thread is dead now and I've said what I had to say already, no point repeating myself or arguing the toss (hey I'm learning). Don't bother responding to this, you're right, I hope the place burns in hell. I'm off to make voodoo dolls of Chayton, Gol et al. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

Obvious to most? Not only must you be a mind reader, but you're also very much wrong. You're the only one to mention it so far like. Re-read the actual thread, word for word, right from the beginning, every post, not just mine. You'll also notice quite a few of my comments about this place are tounge in cheek and I also later apologised to the owners/mods of the forum for any offence I may have caused in my 'critique' of this place. Stressing that this is my genuine appraisal of the forum. Which BTW, as a member, I have a right to expess (IMO). I'm oldskool too, as I was a member of the original Toon-Chat forum. At least I'm up front about it and don't use other boards to criticise this place or target individuals or anything like that. I'm actually trying to be helpful, as shallow as that may read. I've praised this board, some of the members and such too, so it's not as if it's petty or tit for tat because N.O got criticised either. Anyway, like I said, people who know me enough know I don't hold grudges or anything like that. I might be a pest and many things, but a cunt I'm not. PS Why oh why do I keep getting drawn into these things. I'll learn one day...

I don't really care to be honest. I know within myself, that's not true and I'd hope people who knew me enough, wouldn't see it like that because I'm not like that. I stand by all my comments and if you or anyone misreads them or misniterprets them as me wishing ill on this place, fair enough. I won't lie, I was mighty pissed off over the 'split' but more with myself for letting it happen and to be truthful, despite how gutted I was at first, it's been a blessing in disguise (and that's not a dig at this place or anyone), it's made me change how I view N.O - for the better in my opinion. I'm a Newcastle fan first and foremost, I have always preached from day one the importance of having many sites, many forums for NUFC fans to be able to use. Why do you think I was against any criticism of Nufc.com on N.O or other Toon sites? There has never been any criticism of this place on our forum either, not once. I certainly wouldn't be happy with that. Anyway, think what you like. You're wrong.

I don't take obvious pleasure/comfort with my assertion, although I can see how my comments would read like that. I was just being honest, blunt even. I've seen it many a time with small forums and if I've learned one thing with football forums in particular, they rely on new members. Without new members, the chat becomes stale, been there, done it all before, and people get bored and before you know it, one top member just disappears, then another and so on and so on and it ends up floating about in cyber space. That's what I genuinly think will happen to this forum because it's not the most appealing website to "newbies", it looks great, works fantastic, like I said it's one of the best forums I've seen, but it has a snobby, patronising, almost false kind of feel to it and I'm not the only one to comment on that. Maybe that's just me or "us", maybe not. As ever the truth is in between. And as a NUFC forum, a lot of fans will not settle down here or set it as their home page if you like, some will, but the vast majority won't. I like to think I understand NUFC fans, having ran Nufc.nu, HTT and now Newcastle-online. And while I probably come across as arrogant, I think I know what makes them tick, what doesn't, what they want and what they don't. Online anyway. I hope it doesn't fade away or just die, and I mean that, not that anyone will believe me like. But I can honestly see it heading that way. Chayton and Sheargol have ran many forums no doubt, and I bet most have just fizzled out. I have too, 90% of them died despite my best efforts and large enough memberships. You can build the best site, the best forum, but it's people that make a site/forum. ALL KINDS. Based on some of the opinions on here, the likes of Taylor27 wouldn't be welcome on here, or would be constantly mocked etc. Hell, he's not even a member of this board, and he's being mocked. Whether he posts shit or is winding people up or not, these kind of threads on here reflect badly on this forum, it's members and it's chances of surviving to an ubiased, reading audience, or lurkers. I know this because we've got members who come our way, after having first tried this place, deciding to stick with us. Aye there is a lot of crap, but no-one looks down on anyone, there is no gang mentality, cliques or anything like that. Just people, their opinions and a platform to voice them. I guess that's why it's so popular, despite being "shite". I'm sure Chayton, Peasepud and Sheargol et al will work hard to keep this board alive, they already have with the games and such, but often it's the members themselves that have to work hard to keep a board going. Anyway, that's my opinion, as a member of this forum who will continue to use it (if I'm still wanted ), and as someone who runs a board where some of our members also use this board, this is my genuine thoughts/advice on this place, backed up with years of experience. Trust me, it will die a death if it continues to sneer at people and other sites, especially fellow fans. If fans hate one thing, it's being ridiculed by their own. Think about it.

Oooh, dissent Nah. I got like that as well and there will be a period where I don't bother with it for a while, like a few months back. I think you have to have a break from forums as they can be addictive and they can bog you down. I'm going to have one from the whole site soon, I was meant to last week but got let down. If you're feeling duty-bound to log on BTW Skeletor you shouldn't, you don't have to, take your break or whatever, man. You owe the forum or no-one nowt. Anyway I'm off. Alex, you're a canny bloke, but you're being an arse in my opinion. No need to slag Taylor27. Chayton, Peasepud, Sheargol et al, no offence meant with my comments regarding this board. Some of it was tounge in cheek, but some of it is what I generally feel about this place, but overall, that's forum's for you. None are perfect, not N.O, not here. At least Toon fans have platforms to have their say and that's all that matters at the end of the day and for that, both forums are valuable entities. Cheers

BTW, we should merge. Makes sense.

That's always going to happen on a large forum though, aye we do have our daft posts but it was recently an international break and with the club never in the news these days (thankfuly) there is not a lot to talk about that hasn't already been discussed a million times before. Recipe for 'inane' waffle. But every now and again, some decent threads do pop up (more frequent than not) and we have a lot of what I'd call top members who I don't think are being dragged down, I think they are intelligent enough to know that forum's get like this, that all they have to do is ignore or skip whatever they percieve as "crap". And if NUFC fans want to use their forum to sit back and waffle shite for a bit, so long as they respect the main forum rules so as no abuse etc., then who am I or anyone to say no you can't do that? I've tried doing that, tried to shape the forum, and as a consequence, it backfired and I now see how wrong I was in my administration of the board. We have tons of top members, a great mod team, not just canny people, but good solid posters too who know their stuff, passionate lads, and the main site just grows and grows every week, in itself feeding the forum with more top posters, from all over the place, of all ages, giving us a rich and diverse community. Honestly, it's not as bad as some would have you believe, if it was, this place would be populated with a lot more people. It's popular because there is no snobbery, no over analysing of everything, no pretences, no falseness. People can relax in wor place, they can post shite and not be slagged for it or looked down on and they can post serious stuff in a 50 page thread on tactics. Or they could just kick back and waffle away when they are bored and again, not be looked down on. That's what Souness would call a proper forum I need a word count...

BTW That reads bad, it reads as if all the mods came to us, some did, but not all of them and aye we did target mods who we thought were decent members to help us recover. But we didn't bribe them. Begged aye, but no bribes. Well, not many

I read a few weeks back that we're heading for our worst weather in years. It actually snowed the other night, although I never saw it, but there was scraps of it on the path and on roofs, not ice either. I love snow, hope we get tons of it.

Renton, of course I take it seriously, that's just me, I always will and I ain't going to change. If it was fair critcism, or justified, then fair enough but half the crap being spouted about N.O is coming from people who don't even use it, or pop in for a quick read and then make up their mind based on one or two "bollocks" threads or some "daft" comments. FFS it's a forum, you're going to get that on any board, large and small. And you saying to me don't take it seriously, I say the same to you. Why would a few people on a message board you don't use, get on your tits? And why then slag that board and people who use it on another board, if so? Is that not taking things serious? Contradiction there Renton. At least I have a vested interest to justify my overly defensive/serious reposte to all this and a smattering of justification (in my eyes anyway). I just find all these snide remarks kind of snobby, sour grapes even and more than an unfair projection of Newcastle-Online. You'll not read people slagging this place off on our board, or slagging any fellow Toon site, I imagine people have better things to do with their time to over analyse a forum and it's members. (Unlike myself a few posts up regarding this one ) And for what it's worth, Taylor27 actually posts good stuff when not on a wind up/piss take. But then if you were an active member, you'd know that. Lastly, you need to lighten up if what you read on a message board gets on your tits. And yes, I understand the irony in that. PS Longwinded enough for you?

3 of them were already mods, 4 asked to be mods, and the others write for the main site. 57904[/snapback] Erm, I don't fit into any of those categories. I was asked if I'd like to be a mod. 57915[/snapback] Shhhh, we know that, but don't let on we had to beg you's

it's been freezing all week. Mind I'm a thin blooded tart so it's always cold to me.

3 of them were already mods, 4 asked to be mods, and the others write for the main site.

Fucking hell, when did Newcastle fans become so snobby? And Taylor27 was taking the piss Alex, but you took it serious, as usual so the joke is kind of on you. I bet he was pissing himself laughing, I know I was. And I'd rather have Taylor27 posting his "bollocks" then a two faced snide like yourself. Can't have good debate? Fucking hell, have you ever tried? Furthermore, could you? I remember wiping your arse a few times when you tried. And the bit in bold, that's exactly what makes our forum so successful (great - just for you Alex) - it's different; you get the crap, the piss taking, the fights, the cracking debate, the humour, everything. Give me that any day of the week over the clit rubbing, lets all ejaculate together that goes on in here at times. It's a Newcastle United supporters site not an Ameican Express members only club. There are no age barriers, IQ barriers or any of that crap on wor board. If you don't like it, don't read it or post on it and if you dislike some of the members, say it to their faces and not behind their backs. Low that. No offence to Chayton or any of the mods on here, I like you guys and all that you know what crap is in the past, but I'm gonna speak my mind here and give you my true thoughts on this forum for what it's worth (whether you care or not), and as an actual member of the board, I think I have a right to offer what is an objective and honest critique. This forum will die a death pretty soon because it's too snobby, too perpetual. Every thread I read seems to be the same. The NUFC forum is dead and the general chat forum is a parody of the former Toon Tastic, which I was an actual member of too. It all seems fake, false, you can't replicate something that doesn't exist - the old Toon Tastic. I should know because I tried to replicate the old HTT hence this board being created. I was trying to shape the forum, mould it to my taste. No duplicate posts, no misleading thread titles and all that other bollocks... Which must have pissed you guys right off, and I don't blame yous. Now I couldn't care less, I'm not even a mod/admin anymore. Our board is now great because it's not great, perfect or tailor made as I had tried to make it. It has a bit of everything and I'm telling you, some N.O users reading some of the comments on here about the place and some of the members, users who you's would like on here, will look negatively on this place because it's projecting a superiority image. But in truth, and this will sound harsh, this place is dull. You guys have done exactly what I tried to do with N.O, something you's ran away from ironically. You've tried to create a "perfect" forum, where everyone is intelligent, where everyone gets on, where there are no "bairns", where there are no piss takers, where there is no abuse, where everything is "swell". Hence the return to "oldskool" names, reviving threads that have been done to death, criticising other places that don't match your "world", or members of other boards who don't share your "world". "Toontastic.net - Bringing Newcastle Fans Back Home"? This isn't a Newcastle United Fans forum, it's an office coffee break. It's not even a community, it's a student accomodation. N.O is a Newcastle United Fans Forum, a community, and always will be, long after this one has gone. This forum will go three ways, disappear altogether, stay as it is, or it will become popular like ours and with it, you'll lose "your" forum anyway because you'll get the divvies, the wind up merchants, the "worse culprits" as Alex so eloquently puts it, basically the people that make up bits of our board that some of you piss and moan about on here. Trust me, I've ran and been involved with many boards, not just football, but covering all kinds of things from web development, general football, sharks, publishing forums, you name it. BTW all members we ban, will end up here. And if it gets too boring at wor place, too dull, too damn repetitive, we'll all move in on here. Put me down for moderator just in case PS Chayton, Peasepud, Shearergol, et al please don't take offence at any of my criticism, it's legit, and it's not personal, i.e. directed at any of you, not even Alex. These are my opinions about the place, the feel of it. It's a good forum, cracking software, lots of features, you's have set it up brilliantly, it's the best forum I've seen (not too keen on some of the colors mind but that's bye the bye), and most members are canny, but it stinks of superiority/snobbery, it doesn't feel like a NUFC supporters forum at all and it kind of feels false, sorry. Cheers

What's so bad about Barnes? So he can't read an autocue? Hang him... At least he's real and so is his show, unlike half the bubble-wrapped crap passing off as football shows like MOTD and MOTD2, not to mention the dreadful Premiership. Plus I've met Barnes and he's a top bloke. Very knowledgeable about the game in my opinion and very likeable. I don't agree with his opinion on black managers not getting a chance because of their skin color mind, I agree with Chris Kamara - most of them don't even bother trying. Although I'm sure racism exists in boardrooms, but today if you're good enough, it doesn't matter what you skin color happens to be or whether you're British or a foreigner. The way it should be. I think Ian Wright is OK too, when not 'presenting', too false. But in generall he's OK.

For being a bully and a bigot, mainly. 49019[/snapback] I thought you meant a successful manager, who was such a good manager, players followed him from club to club to play for him for a moment .... Read his books. And those by others who talk about him. Clough was no bully. He is, sadly, the sort of manager that Souness can only dream of being 49052[/snapback] Cloughie was no different to most people of that era, indeed we are all bigoted and prejudiced in one form or another even today. I know I am and anyone who says they aren't, are liars.

Isn't America meant to be a classless society? The place with the worst racism problem in the world. 49229[/snapback] Are they really a classless society? You don't buy into all that 'free society' shite do you?

Positive discrimination in my opinion defeats the purpose and will only serve to inflame the issue even more. While I can see why PD is used, I just think it's a defeatest way of looking at things, a sweeping it under the carpet kind of thing if you like. In fact, is it not kind of racist in a way? If for example, myself (a white bloke) and a black bloke went for the same job and he got it because of his skin color, is that not racist against me? Is that not like the dark old days when black people and ethnic minorities were refused jobs because of their skin color? Or am I reading it all wrong? Either way I don't like it. But what are the other options? How do you get more black people and ethnic minorities into white dominated workforces, institutions and into offices of 'power'? I think the Asian community have shown the way. They prioritise education and good work ethic and as a result they now have their fingers in many pies to use an old cliche, if they can do it then so can black people and other minorities. And it's not just a black/minority issue either. As someone who grew up in a white dominated area where 70% of the population were unemployed and lacking basic education, it's very much an issue for many people, regardless of race. One of the arguments on here is that it's tougher for black people or ethnic minorities to "get on in life" than it is for white people, that may be the case in some instances sure, but it's like that for many white people too. For me, and this is opening up a whole new debate here, it's a class issue in my opinion. Take down those class barriers and you will defeat racism or combat it effectively and in doing so combat a lot of other equally disturbing issues that exist in society. The class issue is a bigger issue than racism and is much more damaging to society. Ironically I have found that those without good jobs and a good education (the lower-class or working-class) are less likely to be racist than those with good jobs and a good education behind them. Which could explain why there hasn't been a black Prime Minister candidate or a Black Mayor of London just to use an example. While in areas where I grew up you will almost certainly hear the phrases "darkie", "packie" etc. where as you wouldn't in areas like Jesmond for example, I would say these areas and these people are less likely to be racist than the more affluent areas. Or less likely to be racist than one would imagine or consider given the phrase that people use in the type of area where I grew up to describe, say for example, an Asian. Where I grew up an Asian is a "darkie", is that racism or vernacular? Hard to say but I will say that we must not confuse slang with deep rooted racism. For me you will never ever stop someone from calling an Asian for example a "darkie" or vice versa, you will never stamp that out just like you will never stamp out someone calling an obese person "fatty" or someone wearing specs "geppy" or "4 eyes". It's at the top, the real deep rooted racism whereby someone doesn't get a job based on their skin color, despite being perfectly qualified and experienced, that needs stamped out, that is bad for society. That's the real areas of change we need to inforce, but not by positive discrimation because you're creating a whole new culture of inadvertant discrimination that will probably pop up in years yet passed and bite society on the arse. If you are given people a leg up you're creating a lazy, dependent society devoid of endevour, ambition and the will to succeed. As already mentioned, Asian people in my experience are ideal templates for other ethnic minorities because these people have not only adapted to our country, they have also changed it and above all else, they play a major role in how we as a nation operate today in the 21st century. People also need to ditch the persecution complexes, the chips on shoulders and stop blaming this and that and looking for excuses. Oh, and bring down the class walls.

I'm a modern day Keeganite me.

Oh I knew what you meant Alex, I mean just the once is hard to believe, especially given Bez's slant on things... I'm sure it goes on but I've only heard it the once. I was with the bairn as well and that pissed me off more than anything. Hate hearing stuff like that because there is no need for it. Yet where I grew up and when I was growing up I called corner shops darkie shops or Asians darkies and stuff like that and once called a black lass at school a "black bitch" and get a ticking off for it. I was about 9 or 10 at the time and there was never any mention of racism about my remarks, just that it was nasty so I never thought anything of it. I didn't even know there was a word that existed called racism. It wasn't until I got older and berfiended a few "darkies" as I used to call them that I learned not to look at people as a skin color. It's sad really and really stupid, the kind of stupidness of poking yourself in the eye to see if it hurts. Why? Anyway...

Yep just the once, mind I'm in the Milburn L7 where they are all posh. A few away from home like but in my experience I can honestly say we do not have a problem of any kind whatsoever and that's not me being pro fellow fans because in my eyes half of them that follow the lads are arseholes, pissy moaning whinging twats. And as a City, well having lived in "mixed" areas I'd say we don't have a real probklem with racism in that department either. Lets face facts, they will never ever stamp it out, you can't force people to be nice to other people, people will say whatever they want, whether it's racist, or abuse of someones weight, hair color or looks. It's a sad fact of life. By making a big issue of it though you give these tossers some kind of significance and power because they want people to be aware of others' skin color. I was once at the match with the bairn (nephew) and instead of saying black man or black player he said "the player with the funny hair". That player was Bernard. Now there is nothing wrong with saying black player but I was well pleased that my nephew didn't look at someone as a skin color.

Andy Cole, Sir Les, Bernard, Solano, Asprilla - what do they all have in common? Massive heroes on Tyneside. Butt Viana O'Brien Barton Peacock (Darren) Hooper Marcelino Robert What do they all have in common? Abused by Toon fans at one time or another. This whole "is it because they are black" crap is pathetic. If they (the critics) don't like you, they don't like you. Regardless of color, creed, cost, background or nationality. I have only ever heard one racist remark at St. James' Park - directed at Uriah Rennie. Someone called him a black bastard and myself and others quickly told this cretin what we though about him and he shut up like the coward he is. That was at the Barca friendly a few years back. Newcastle fans are the most tolerable fans of any, we have been praised many a time not just by fellow (rival) fans but by the likes of Henry, kick it out and show racism the red card. We love our football and couldn't give a damn about anything else and if we don't like someone, well we can be right twats but never racist. Of course there will be racists at SJP and in the ranks but then I could say that of every walk of life so it's not as if we are unuique here, we aren't. By making such pathetic assumptions you undermine and patronise the efforts of others and indeed fellow fans who have done a lot to stamp it out. To such an extent I have only heard one racist comment at SJP in over 10 years of going. That's a miracle given how half the fans are racist and out to abuse all the black players... Talent is what brings adulation or scorn. For every Faye there is a white Faye and a Sir Les so it's a nothing argument and one I take serious offence at because it just dilutes the message and makes the issue seem more significant than what it is while the real culprits, the racists can hide. Don't tar people with a brush or pre-judge, that's as bad as racism in my book.

Fooking hell, nearly as bad us we are