Toonpack

Meanwhile, somewhere in Scarborough absolute proof that you read NOTHING Irony rules yet again Bob has it spot on.

Smoking, definitely just a habit now, don't even enjoy my first one of the day in all honesty.

Meanwhile, somewhere in Scarborough

Without going full circle in two threads, theres absoultely zero proof of that. Not proof, but a strong hint: http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/

Maybe we should just nuke (neutron bomb preferably) Afghanistan, it's been getting people killed since Alexander the Great and has given nowt to the world. It's a waste of good mountains and scrubland.

Well I've been asking where the cash would have come from for two years so you could be right !! Anyway The debt (or level of investment) only comes down to the levels you suggest IF the cost cutting (and profit on transfers), that Ashley gets vilified for, still takes place. The debt doubled in the last 4 years of the previous regime, I would suggest it's fair to say the same would have continued, So we're back at £140 Million, less the stadium as you suggest so we're at £100 Million. There was also £27 Million owing on transfers as at the point of sale, so that's us back to £127 million, but we can knock £10 Mill off that against the managerial shenanigans that were down to Ashley, so back down to £117 Million. So let's say we're looking for £117 Mill to steady the ship i.e. just stand still. Specifically NOT allowing the throwing of money at the team to allow the striving for improvement and improved performance on the pitch = nirvana. Regarding raising the money, there was no security in the club for bank lending, the club had already had maxed out its equity so the only conceivable way to do generate banking finance (as is the norm with the Premiership debt not tied to a club assett or future revenue stream) is to have it guaranteed by an owner/benefactor. The Halls and Shepherd (even if they had the will) just weren't rich enough. I personally doubt they had the will tbh, at the first sign of the gravy train approaching the buffers they unsuccesfully spent £3 Million trying to get rid or refinance. The indecent haste of the sale to Ashley tells you all you need to know about what they would have done - In my opinion. I appreciate Shepherd tried to block the sale for reasons unknown, which is strange, as he MUST have been party to the previous years attempts. Other prospective buyers did due dilligence and ran like fuck, Ashley the idiot didn't (to his cost). The clubs finances were a train wreck in 2007, without an owner with VERY deep pockets I remain convinced we would have been fucked. Ashley's made monumental cock-ups that have cost him a fortune (he's got about 25% of his wealth tied up in the club now), it's not the man himself that makes me happy he's here, it's simply the depth of his pockets. They wouldn't have needed to be so deep if he hadn't been such a useless twat BUT they'd have still needed to be pretty damned deep. I don't accept that we are Bolton or Stoke (despite what the old rascist one says) but I am a realist and I believe the above position is a realistic one. Absolutely we had the BEST times under the Halls/Shepherd but I think the latter years we were like the gambler chasing the last big loss, whether it's done for the "right" reasons or not it's still the road to BIG trouble. We REALLY REALLY needed to do something different. All my opinion of course, but I hope at least some, who dissagree with me, (I know one won't) will at least agree my that premise/opinion is not ludicrous and only done because of blind hatred THE END

Please provide a link to such debate please ?? The other questions I'll look at now, enjoy your night out, hope you don't get run over.

Where's the money come from to fill the chasm ??? Where's the money come from to fill the chasm ??? That's all totally innaccurate and not my views at all, but anyway - Where's the money come from to fill the chasm ??? Where's the money come from to fill the chasm ???

Where would the money have come from to sustain the club. from your pocket when you decide to support your man ? He's not "my man" and I don't have multi millions, where could the multi millions needed come from ?? BTW the stated aim is 10th or above, if achieved year on year, it will exceed the previous regime's 9.4th year on year. Just sayin...........

Where would the money have come from to sustain the club.

Im sorry I must have missed the post on this, where does this figure of £30m per year come from? Post #306 It’s an arbitrary figure based upon the facts that our losses had been growing year on year to the point where we lost £34.2 in 2007. Despite the fact that our losses were in fact climbing every year, I took a view that £30 million loss pa was a reasonable figure to forecast as the likely loss year on year going forward and therefore the amount of additional income/finance we’d have to find, just to stand still mind.

I know that, dimwit, it'd have happened eventually under your mate anyway, probably with the help of a -10 point deduction, because you STILL can't explain where the money would have come from that we needed. . but it DIDN'T happen, did it ? You're talking speculative bollocks. You should go back to supporting the club and putting your own money in to help your man build and go forward in these exciting times The club has fallen in the rich list, the money WAS generated, so where has it gone ? If YOU know the answer to that, apply for the job because your man is making a right fuck up of it. Maybe Fat Fred earned his salary after all. What a fucking idiot you are. No more speculative that you thinking FFS/Halls would have found the £120 mill we needed to keep going for 4 years

I know that, dimwit, it'd have happened eventually under your mate anyway, probably with the help of a -10 point deduction, because you STILL can't explain where the money would have come from that we needed. Edit - I notice you pointedly gloss over (erase) the Spurs/Liverpool info.

We'll never agree then, because I'm afraid all the evidence I look at points to financial meltdown.

It's not the same for everyone, the majority of Premier League club lending is underwritten by an owner/benefactor. NUFC's credit markedly was not, it was mortgaged/guaranteed against the assets of the club itself, to the point where there was NO equity. How was the club to generate the money it needed to survive (over £30 million a year from 2007) Eh ???? Let alone the millions needed to "push on" and compete at it's "rightfull" level. give it a rest man.. Where will we be in 5 years time, that will be after 9 years of Ashley ? Competing with the likes of Shrewsbury again ?If you think the likes of Spurs and Liverpool are doing it all wrong, and we are doing it right, you're a fucking idiot. And you don't go to games and support these exciting times do you ? Hypocrite. We'd probably be doing that now if we didn't have an owner with deep pockets. Spurs - their ONLY debt is debt they took on to develop their training complex. They operate within their means and they've just turned a profit. Liverpool - Massive debts but they turn a profit (well they did when they were locked in the Champs league) and their sponsorship is 10 times ours. The new owner has said, they must sell to buy. Be interesting how they do now they've "slipped". We had Champions League debts and costs on a non Champions League footing, where'd the money come from Leazes to assault the 4 - 6 of top of the league.

It's not the same for everyone, the majority of Premier League club lending is underwritten by an owner/benefactor. NUFC's credit markedly was not, it was mortgaged/guaranteed against the assets of the club itself, to the point where there was NO equity. How was the club to generate the money it needed to survive (over £30 million a year from 2007) Eh ???? Let alone the millions needed to "push on" and compete at it's "rightfull" level.

The problem is Pud, he strived and failed and left the club a financial shambles with a chasm to climb out of. The world was changing long before they sold up but the methods didn’t. My argument is that there was a time when we could afford that route, but it had long gone, and to continue was beyond foolish and it put the club in an incredibly bad financial position and was absolutely unsustainable . At the point of sale the club had no credit lines left and had just recorded a record loss of £34.2 Million, furthermore the trend for losses, and thus debt, was up, not down (it did, and has, continued to double every 4 years). Just to stand still, on revenues alone, we’d have to have generated circa £120million a year, I doubt even Fred at his “magician” best couldn’t have pulled that off. So we were left with the need to fund the club operations with credit, as I’ve said ad nauseaum, where could that money have been sourced from ??

The club was built on credit you fool, what do you think debt is We used the revenues to pay the creditors so we could spend year on year more than we earned (revenues). Even at their peak our revenues were short of our spend (that'd be what losses are btw). In 2007 our credit was maxed out, we needed more, who was going to lend it to us (just to stand still we needed to borrow about £120 million over 4 years because we were losing around £30 Million every year). Where was it comming from Leazes. Oh I know we can cover it through revenues, I mean £30 million a year is only 1.5 million additional shirt sales (at £20 profit a shirt) or 600 corporate boxes at £50K a season, piss easy I guess Edit - Maybe you could answer NJS' question as well while you're on.

Please see my post regarding Prem debt and how it's guaranteed/structured by club. How was NUFC going to generate the cash needed to fulfill your expectations? the Halls and Shepherd managed it of course, we are now competing with the likes of Stoke. If you still went to games, to support the club that has a bright future according to you, you would maybe realise that. They managed it until the credit was exhausted. How, given the financial position of the club in 2007, would you generate the finance to deliver your expectation.

Please see my post regarding Prem debt and how it's guaranteed/structured by club. How was NUFC going to generate the cash needed to fulfill your expectations?

You don't know do you ?? The posts I've made on here include data from NUMEROUS sources, independent ones at that, to support my view/belief (none from Skunkers BTW). Please respond the same. If you do I'll answer ALL your irrelevant questions.

Flim flam I said it's your turn. I've stated with, supporting information, that I don't think the money could be had. You seem to believe it could. So please enlighten us, where'd the money come from Leazesmug, and please back it up with some supporting information.

Where'd the money come from to do this Leazesmug

From what source? ask Mike Ashley, he's the expert who would automatically do better than Fred. He's the person who has made the decisions which have led to it, so ask him what decisions he made ? Great answer, well that's me convinced

We are in a better position NOW than we were in 2007 Please tell me where you think we'd be NOW if we hadn't been taken over by a very rich bastard. I have answered every question asked, worthy of comment, with facts (from multiple sources), not doing it any more until you start to do the same.