Fop 1 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 A Villa fan at work (and all of the other fans he knows, he reckons) says they're happy to give O'Neill this season and are very optimistic about next. They can see improvements already and can't wait to get going again. They see exciting times ahead, regardless of this season's finish. They might well only be in a marginally better position than us right now, but do we feel the same way about Roeder? We were in a similar position with Robson when he first came in. We were midtable for a season or too but willing to let it slide because we could see positive changes being made on and off the pitch. We had an injury crisis then too, come to think of it, although not as bad as this years I think. Pretty sure he also criticised things like our scouting network and initially youth development etc. and their lack of support at board level as well, although with Robson the scouting side of things maybe wasn't quite so necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 A Villa fan at work (and all of the other fans he knows, he reckons) says they're happy to give O'Neill this season and are very optimistic about next. They can see improvements already and can't wait to get going again. They see exciting times ahead, regardless of this season's finish. They might well only be in a marginally better position than us right now, but do we feel the same way about Roeder? We were in a similar position with Robson when he first came in. We were midtable for a season or too but willing to let it slide because we could see positive changes being made on and off the pitch. We had an injury crisis then too, come to think of it, although not as bad as this years I think. Pretty sure he also criticised things like our scouting network and initially youth development etc. and their lack of support at board level as well, although with Robson the scouting side of things maybe wasn't quite so necessary. Not when you unearth talent like Carl Cort, Hugo Viana and Daniel Cordone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 A Villa fan at work (and all of the other fans he knows, he reckons) says they're happy to give O'Neill this season and are very optimistic about next. They can see improvements already and can't wait to get going again. They see exciting times ahead, regardless of this season's finish. They might well only be in a marginally better position than us right now, but do we feel the same way about Roeder? We were in a similar position with Robson when he first came in. We were midtable for a season or too but willing to let it slide because we could see positive changes being made on and off the pitch. We had an injury crisis then too, come to think of it, although not as bad as this years I think. Pretty sure he also criticised things like our scouting network and initially youth development etc. and their lack of support at board level as well, although with Robson the scouting side of things maybe wasn't quite so necessary. Not when you unearth talent like Carl Cort, Hugo Viana and Daniel Cordone.... He did bring in other players though, and (as I said above) no manager is 100% successful at getting it right (Ferguson and Wenger have had their share of lemons), plus Viana is doing alright now, just circumstance and opportunity didn't work for him here. But are you really saying that Robson's personal network was none existent? Or some how worse than sending Lee Clarke on a piss up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 1 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 The question is, will it make a difference to Shepherd if we lose the next two games? I'm not sure. If we lose our next 2 games we could conceivably finish as low as 15th, that would be bound to make the Fat Man reach for the big red button. I like the idea of Shepherd actually having such a button. In fact, given the frequency of his sackings, it wouldn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Personally I'd support the appointment of someone like Allerdyce (although I suspect many would begin to chafe quite quickly at what'd had have us playing) People wouldn't give a shit how we played if we were winning games and dominating teams in the way Bolton do. There's a big difference between organised, well-drilled winning football which can be unattractive which is what Bolton play, and what we currently turn out which is just plain bad losing football with bad performances from most of the 11 on the pitch. If we were winning games and playing like a team, people wouldn't give a shit about the "pack the box with big men" type tactics. This sums it all up very well. The days when we played fast, flowing, attacking football that was entertaining are ling gone. What we see is some of the worst, most depressing, clueless and dull football going. So even if Allardyce did have us playing a certain way, but winnign who would give a fuck since we were already watchign complete shite! And i honestly don't think we'd be bad to watch under him at all tbh, with the advantage we'd be organised, hard to beat and have some actual direction and idea about what we were doing. The point about Villa is also a good one, they may well be having a relatively poor season position wise, but they'll have seen what O'Neil is trying to do, he's made them harder to beat and more organised, they justhaven;t won enough games yet and draw too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanMag 0 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 A question: Would Allardyce follow his current method of bringing in older (experienced) players if he was to get the position at NUFC or was that due to the money that he had been given while at BWFC? What young promising talent has his scouting setup brought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 The question is, will it make a difference to Shepherd if we lose the next two games? I'm not sure. If we lose our next 2 games we could conceivably finish as low as 15th, that would be bound to make the Fat Man reach for the big red button. I like the idea of Shepherd actually having such a button. In fact, given the frequency of his sackings, it wouldn't surprise me. you can just picture it can't you? hits the button, the floor opens up beneath roeder and you have those few seconds of comedy 'hanging in the air' before dropping down the chute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2929 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 A question: Would Allardyce follow his current method of bringing in older (experienced) players if he was to get the position at NUFC or was that due to the money that he had been given while at BWFC? What young promising talent has his scouting setup brought? Someone earlier mentioned that big Sam's transfer budget over his time at Bolton has averaged 500k per season, so honestly what do you think? Also he has brought through players like Nicky Hunt, Kevin Nolan, Richardo Gardner or his scouting of Tal Ben Haim, Henrik Pererson or his ability to revive players careers like Jay Jay Okocha or Ivan Campo - so no he's got no history of that sort of ability, thank fuck the fat man wouldn't be interested in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 133 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 A question: Would Allardyce follow his current method of bringing in older (experienced) players if he was to get the position at NUFC or was that due to the money that he had been given while at BWFC? What young promising talent has his scouting setup brought? Someone earlier mentioned that big Sam's transfer budget over his time at Bolton has averaged 500k per season, so honestly what do you think? Also he has brought through players like Nicky Hunt, Kevin Nolan, Richardo Gardner or his scouting of Tal Ben Haim, Henrik Pererson or his ability to revive players careers like Jay Jay Okocha or Ivan Campo - so no he's got no history of that sort of ability, thank fuck the fat man wouldn't be interested in him. One glance at the Premiership table should tell you all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2929 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 A question: Would Allardyce follow his current method of bringing in older (experienced) players if he was to get the position at NUFC or was that due to the money that he had been given while at BWFC? What young promising talent has his scouting setup brought? Someone earlier mentioned that big Sam's transfer budget over his time at Bolton has averaged 500k per season, so honestly what do you think? Also he has brought through players like Nicky Hunt, Kevin Nolan, Richardo Gardner or his scouting of Tal Ben Haim, Henrik Pererson or his ability to revive players careers like Jay Jay Okocha or Ivan Campo - so no he's got no history of that sort of ability, thank fuck the fat man wouldn't be interested in him. One glance at the Premiership table should tell you all you need to know. And it shows us top of the North East so there is nothing for the fat man to worry about then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 A question: Would Allardyce follow his current method of bringing in older (experienced) players if he was to get the position at NUFC or was that due to the money that he had been given while at BWFC? What young promising talent has his scouting setup brought? Someone earlier mentioned that big Sam's transfer budget over his time at Bolton has averaged 500k per season, so honestly what do you think? Also he has brought through players like Nicky Hunt, Kevin Nolan, Richardo Gardner or his scouting of Tal Ben Haim, Henrik Pererson or his ability to revive players careers like Jay Jay Okocha or Ivan Campo - so no he's got no history of that sort of ability, thank fuck the fat man wouldn't be interested in him. One glance at the Premiership table should tell you all you need to know. And it shows us top of the North East so there is nothing for the fat man to worry about then. So true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 The lads got a point. The working conditions here as compared to Bolton would be completely different. Just assuming he would do well might be misplaced, seeing as he's only ever worked for Bolton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. You think it was a backwards step? I don't think you'll find anyone who wanted to keep Souness over Roeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. You think it was a backwards step? I don't think you'll find anyone who wanted to keep Souness over Roeder No, but I don't think we're any better off under Roeder than we were under Souness. Certainly not on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. You think it was a backwards step? I don't think you'll find anyone who wanted to keep Souness over Roeder I don't think appointing him on a permanent basis represented progress. They're different but both are shit managers imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17765 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. You think it was a backwards step? I don't think you'll find anyone who wanted to keep Souness over Roeder If we finish with less points and having had worse cup runs, what would you say? Stupid argument anyway, akin to discussing which is worse, turd or shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 His being better than Roeder is a fairly safe bet though. Roeder was 'just better than Souness' Was/is he? Not so sure myself. You think it was a backwards step? I don't think you'll find anyone who wanted to keep Souness over Roeder If we finish with less points and having had worse cup runs, what would you say? Stupid argument anyway, akin to discussing which is worse, turd or shit. I almost made a very similar analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I'm talking about the amazing hindsight of just wanting 'anyone better than Roeder' when that criteria was plainly met by Roeder replacing Souness at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17765 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I'm talking about the amazing hindsight of just wanting 'anyone better than Roeder' when that criteria was plainly met by Roeder replacing Souness at the time How was it met, on the basis of a few caretaker games? I despise Souness, yet despite this recognise his managerial record is actually better than Roeder's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I'm talking about the amazing hindsight of just wanting 'anyone better than Roeder' when that criteria was plainly met by Roeder replacing Souness at the time I don't know what you're talking about there tbh. I thought Roeder did extremely well as a caretaker but I was genuinely shocked and pretty disappointed when he got the permanent job. This was only tempered by my Dad having backed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What I'm saying is, at the time, no one would have asked for Souness back once Roeder had replaced him. Anyone was better than Souness at the time, just as now anyone is better than Roeder, ergo the 'anyone better' argument doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What I'm saying is, at the time, no one would have asked for Souness back once Roeder had replaced him. Anyone was better than Souness at the time, just as now anyone is better than Roeder, ergo the 'anyone better' argument doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. Way to cover your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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