manc-mag 1 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Cech is certainly a better keeper than Given and I haven't seen much of Buffon for a while but I would say he was a better keeper a few years ago. But beyond those two I can't really think of much better. Look at all of the major footballing nations (England, Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Argentina, Brazil and so on) and non of them have a keeper to match Given. So in that respect I would have to class him as world class even if he's not the very best in the world. And as Craig says, his importance has become even more apparent when we became a much poorer side! He is very good don't get me wrong but he also has serious flaws, he doesn't come for crosses well and his communication with the def is also poor at times. As a shot stopper he is world class imo. These two also are as good and better in some dept than Given.. Iker Casillias (can't remember how old he is).. Reina And the point is they're all a level above Harper. It's a no-brainer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobbySol 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. I would say given is in the top five of best keepers worldwide. I personally think hes kept us up the last two seasons, obviously not alone but he is world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Cech is certainly a better keeper than Given and I haven't seen much of Buffon for a while but I would say he was a better keeper a few years ago. But beyond those two I can't really think of much better. Look at all of the major footballing nations (England, Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Argentina, Brazil and so on) and non of them have a keeper to match Given. So in that respect I would have to class him as world class even if he's not the very best in the world. And as Craig says, his importance has become even more apparent when we became a much poorer side! He is very good don't get me wrong but he also has serious flaws, he doesn't come for crosses well and his communication with the def is also poor at times. As a shot stopper he is world class imo. These two also are as good and better in some dept than Given.. Iker Casillias (can't remember how old he is).. Reina And the point is they're all a level above Harper. It's a no-brainer for me. I accept your points but personally for me I like to encourage the squad by showing it that people who come in and do well won't be dropped lightly. TBf there is a case to be made for both our standpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3603 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. I would say given is in the top five of best keepers worldwide. I personally think hes kept us up the last two seasons, obviously not alone but he is world class. If Givens distribution and ability to organise a defence were as good as his shotstopping he would be world class, as it is he just a very good keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4220 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Cech is certainly a better keeper than Given and I haven't seen much of Buffon for a while but I would say he was a better keeper a few years ago. But beyond those two I can't really think of much better. Look at all of the major footballing nations (England, Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Argentina, Brazil and so on) and non of them have a keeper to match Given. So in that respect I would have to class him as world class even if he's not the very best in the world. And as Craig says, his importance has become even more apparent when we became a much poorer side! He is very good don't get me wrong but he also has serious flaws, he doesn't come for crosses well and his communication with the def is also poor at times. As a shot stopper he is world class imo. These two also are as good and better in some dept than Given.. Iker Casillias (can't remember how old he is).. Reina Casillias is 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. Edited September 5, 2007 by Skol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. I think its unfair he has to wear that downs syndrome hat tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4220 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. I think its unfair he has to wear that downs syndrome hat tbf. He doesn't have to, he chooses to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. So there's nobody better, but he's overrated? Can you think of his costly errors, because I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. I think its unfair he has to wear that downs syndrome hat tbf. He doesn't have to, he chooses to ....I heard it has an antenne woven in so he can get signals from the bench... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thank Harper for services rendered, bring Given back into the first squad. Good move by Big Sam to keep Given on the sidelines for the Wigan match, not like Roeder who would have certainly rushed him in as soon as he could stand. But barring another injury during the internationals, Given will be ready to start by the Derby game and he must start. He is a world-class keeper. Harper is a world-class keeper's understudy. The choice is clear. Competition for places is important. Lot of supposition in this thread. Given is good but he certainly isn't world class IMO. Cech and Buffon are world class unreservedly. Petr 'Uncharacteristic Mistake' Cech is overrated IMO. On his day there's no one better but he's prone to making some fairly costly errors. So there's nobody better, but he's overrated? Can you think of his costly errors, because I can't. On his day there can be nobody better but he does have this reputation as being unbeatable even though I always end up hearing the words 'Uncharacteristic Mistake there by Cech' every few weeks. In hindsight costly was probably the wrong word to use, he is prone to the odd gaff though. The most recent one being where he took out about three of his own defenders against Reading for their goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. That is kinda where I am on him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will. Yashin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will. Yashin Christ remember how fat Southall used to be? Great keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Its unlicky for Harper who i think has played really well this season, makign a few stops that saved us points, but Given is comfortably better and when fit has to return for me. Its different with keepers, the top keepers always tend to go straight back in the team ahead of their understudy and they always will. It was good for Big Sam not to rush him like previous managers would ahev, he gave him the Barnsley match, then rested him, but after the international break he'll be ready and i expect will play. As for Given he is a world class shot stopper, as good as anyone really, but his command of his area, dealing with crosses and distribution stop him being world class all round i'd say. That is kinda where I am on him as well. I understand your point (although I would say commanding his box is more of a problem than distribution) but I still struggle to think of more than a couple of keepers who are better than him in the world right now (Cassilas is much more prone to error than him and I don't particularly rate Riena although he's definitely solid) and as such I would have to say he's world class. He's not as good as some players from the past like Banks, Lashin (spellings probably miles off), Shilton, Southall or Schmeicel (spelling again) but they aren't playing any more. Anyway the point is he is the best player we have with a consistency to match his skill that hasn't been found in a Newcastle player since Shearer was in his prime or Bobby Lee and as such it's best for the team that he play. Also clearly being guaranteed his game hasn't harmed him in the past so there's no reason to think it will make him rest on his laurels now. What SA needs to do is make sure he drops players who aren't performing rather than worrying about ones who 99% of the time will. Yashin That's him, tbf I was half asleep when I was typing that last night. I'm quite suprised it makes any sort of sense reading it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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