Newcastle United 2-2 Wigan Athletic

[NJS 3978]

Martins should have been dropped after last week.

 

Owen would have scored if he'd started and had his eye in.

 

(yes I know Martins crossed it but he would have come on as sub by then in my world).

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

GEMMIL dont take that tone with me fella, or if you'd like we could arrange for me to burst that miserable fuckin mug of yours?

HTL, is that you?

[Deano 0]

GEMMIL dont take that tone with me fella, or if you'd like we could arrange for me to burst that miserable fuckin mug of yours?

HTL, is that you?

 

What?

[Gemmill 34469]

martins has 5 goals in 8 appearances

sorry thats pretty good form for most strikers let alone one in a team like ours ...

 

 

and @ the last reply

yes you should be more concerned with other areas, even though you rate martins poorly,. think he's gash and want to criticize him

 

he's scoring and were not getting points so clearly we've got bigger fcking problems elsewhere

when were futher up the table keeping clean sheets and playing well, fair enough tear into martins all you want, but for the minute he's a striker whose putting the ball into the net even though the rest of the team is seemingly in bits.

 

Ant, I'm not stupid enough to think that I can't criticise one player, because another player is also playing poorly.

 

 

but he's fucking not playing badly... poor touch, bad passing etc etc whatever

he's there to fucking score, which he is, and if he wasn't we'd be rock bloody bottom without a hope currently.

You reckon criticizing players putting the ball in the net is a good idea next time he's celebrating in front of ya have a shout and voice your concerns see what effect that has eh?

 

Poor touch, bad passing, whatever? Your argument has been reduced to "whatever minger"?

 

If you read up the page you'll see what I say about him scoring. We can discuss this like adults Ant, or you can just shout BUT HE SCORED every time we try to talk about the areas of his game where he is seriously lacking. I suspect you'll stick with the latter as it avoids facing up to the facts.

[NJS 3978]

Look i understand your logic gemmil and in part i agree, but oba is not one of our problems, he would be if he was not scoring. Yes his 1st touch is poor at times, iv never denied that but it isnt poor on the whole, id say 75% of the time his touch and passing is spot on.

 

The 75% is a joke but he is one of our problems. We cannot keep possession and build consistent attacks because too many players in the team give the ball away a criminal amount of times - Enrique, Guthrie, Butt, Duff, Guttierez, Ameobi AND Martins have been the culprits in the last two games.

[NJS 3978]

Martins should have been dropped after last week.

 

Owen would have scored if he'd started and had his eye in.

 

(yes I know Martins crossed it but he would have come on as sub by then in my world).

 

your thinking Kinnear would have made a well thought out tactical substitution though

 

 

Even Allardyce got the hang of chucking strikers on when you're losing at home.

[Jimbo 133]

Martins should have been dropped after last week.

 

Owen would have scored if he'd started and had his eye in.

 

(yes I know Martins crossed it but he would have come on as sub by then in my world).

 

your thinking Kinnear would have made a well thought out tactical substitution though

 

 

Even Allardyce got the hang of chucking strikers on when you're losing at home.

 

I thought he would usually bring a defender on ?

[NJS 3978]

Martins should have been dropped after last week.

 

Owen would have scored if he'd started and had his eye in.

 

(yes I know Martins crossed it but he would have come on as sub by then in my world).

 

your thinking Kinnear would have made a well thought out tactical substitution though

 

 

Even Allardyce got the hang of chucking strikers on when you're losing at home.

 

I thought he would usually bring a defender on ?

 

Only against a "good" team (ie top 10).

[Park Life 70]

Martins should have been dropped after last week.

 

Owen would have scored if he'd started and had his eye in.

 

(yes I know Martins crossed it but he would have come on as sub by then in my world).

 

your thinking Kinnear would have made a well thought out tactical substitution though

 

 

Even Allardyce got the hang of chucking strikers on when you're losing at home.

 

Subs

 

Owen > Ricky

Zog > Duff

[Gemmill 34469]

Poor touch, bad passing, whatever? Your argument has been reduced to "whatever minger"?

 

If you read up the page you'll see what I say about him scoring. We can discuss this like adults Ant, or you can just shout BUT HE SCORED every time we try to talk about the areas of his game where he is seriously lacking. I suspect you'll stick with the latter as it avoids facing up to the facts.

 

yeah your right Gemmill he's awful

I've seen the area of my ways, I'm glad you've enlightened me, silly me having a bit of a glimmer of hope that we'll keep picking up the odd point as long as we have strikers who even when the teams playing badly somehow get a goal in a game.

 

Apologies Gemmil, yes his first touch isn't great and he's had passes go astray, i simply don't care, if he had 1 leg and just hopped around the box diving at things, i wouldn't care as long as he fucking scores i currently couldn't give a shit how he does it or how many attempts it takes, because our team is fucking hopeless in other areas, at the top of the pitch the front two have to score, and so far all three of our strikers are popping up with goals.

 

when were in a better position to complain about just how many chances they blow or them not scoring 2 every game, maybe then i'll have the luxury to start saying "ah fuck whats going on they should have scored 3 or 4!"

 

Teams are built from the back, the middle of the park can't pass, or help out well enough defensively or chip in with goals, the defense is just giving away goals every game let alone the penalties, and at the top of the pitch were getting some chance of making up for those with them scoring.

 

Martins may not be the best, but frankly he's as good as we have and could've attracted at the time, and frankly now and for the near future.

for £10m we couldn't do better

 

I stopped reading when you saw the area of your ways.

[MattM4 0]

Martins' goal today was a great testimony to what he could achieve with a good first touch.

 

But then I guess if he was the all-rounder we all hope he might be he wouldnt be playing for us.

[Ketsbaia 0]

The comparison between Owen and Martins is ridiculous. Okay, Owen missed a few chances but over the course of 90 minutes he'd make three-fold what Martins does because he's got a footballing brain and he'd put more away because he's a better finisher.

 

How many times does Martins go missing from games? How many times do we have to play with what is effectively ten men because he's not at the races? Yes, he may have 5 goals in 8 but given the chances he has had i'd expect a striker we paid £10 million for to put them away.

 

As a personality I like Martins but on the pitch he's lacking. Make no doubt about it we're in a relegation battle and anyone who'd rather have Martins with them in the trenches instead of Owen, contract wrangle aside, needs their head looking at. Martins summed himself up last season in two consecutive games against Arsenal - In the first one he rounded the goalkeeper and rather than side foot it into the net he wellied it over the bar. In the second he did a similar thing but when the shot required a bit of power he side footed it and the ball didn't even make it to the goal line.

 

As for JFK, he's quickly undoing all the hard work he put in over the first couple of games by showing himself to be massively tactically naive. Some of his decisions are bordering on the Souness.

[Craig 6307]

Harder to criticise when he scores what should have been the winner, but is there ANYONE out there that still rates Martins?

 

Depressing to think that with 11 on the pitch they would have walked that.

 

Yes?

if we didn't give away stupid fucking goals Martins scoring would get us points

he's a striker who is scoring... what more do you want... and he apparently put a great ball through for owen to miss from point blank range

 

Which totally defeats your own argument against Owen... well done

 

Pound for pound, Martins misses more clear-cut chances than Owen and that's fact rather than opinion

[Craig 6307]

martins has got some stick for bad passing and what not but seriously

 

8 appearances, 5goals

he's doing his job

 

From .COM, 2008 stats.

 

Obafemi Martins - App: 8(0); Goals: 4

Michael Owen - App: 6(4); Goals: 5

 

Doing a fantastic job of destroying your own argument here like...

[Gemmill 34469]

Are you a mong?

i haven't criticized Owen at all for his goals this season, sure i fucking said the three of them have done grand especially in comparison to the rest of the areas on the pitch.

 

Gemmill brought up me previously slating us buying Owen

and I said

"My criticism of Owen has and will always be that he is too injury prone cost too much money

fuck sake he's been at the club longer than martins, cost us much more money

played less games and scored less goals... he's scored <30 total since he arrived and played less than 70 games"

 

which he is and he did

 

And you don't see how stupid criticising someone for getting injured and costing a certain amount is? When judging two players, does it not make more sense to talk about their respective abilities.

[Tom 13847]

A few aspects of Owen's game (albeit less glamorous ones) are world class and the same can't be said for Martins.

 

However I doubt we would be having this debate if it had finished 2-1.

[Deano 0]

I like martins and owen

[Ketsbaia 0]

And you don't see how stupid criticising someone for getting injured and costing a certain amount is? When judging two players, does it not make more sense to talk about their respective abilities.

 

I was critising spending £18m on a striker with his sort of injury record

I may be able to agree with what you were saying if the majority of the injuries he picked up were already underlying. The two he suffered over his first few seasons with us (Broken foot and ligament damage) we utter freak incidents that anyone could've suffered. Unfortunatly it's just happened to be Owen.

 

If both were fit which one would you choose? Owen or Martins?

[Ketsbaia 0]

Gemmill, are current situation aside (ala we can't sign better)

 

do you really think we got a good deal paying £18m quid and 100k a week for Owen

 

when the likes of Yakubu went to Everton for 11m, and Bolton had signed Anelka for 7m in 06/07

 

Do you think we got a good deal paying £10 million and whatever amount a week for Martins?

[Ketsbaia 0]

And you don't see how stupid criticising someone for getting injured and costing a certain amount is? When judging two players, does it not make more sense to talk about their respective abilities.

 

I was critising spending £18m on a striker with his sort of injury record

I may be able to agree with what you were saying if the majority of the injuries he picked up were already underlying. The two he suffered over his first few seasons with us (Broken foot and ligament damage) we utter freak incidents that anyone could've suffered. Unfortunatly it's just happened to be Owen.

 

If both were fit which one would you choose? Owen or Martins?

 

 

Owen, if owens fully fit he's a clinical finisher i never have said he wasn't

i've always said we just paid too much for him

 

I agree we paid too much for him, but I don't get why you're still going on about it. How long ago did he sign?

[Deano 0]

And you don't see how stupid criticising someone for getting injured and costing a certain amount is? When judging two players, does it not make more sense to talk about their respective abilities.

 

I was critising spending £18m on a striker with his sort of injury record

I may be able to agree with what you were saying if the majority of the injuries he picked up were already underlying. The two he suffered over his first few seasons with us (Broken foot and ligament damage) we utter freak incidents that anyone could've suffered. Unfortunatly it's just happened to be Owen.

 

If both were fit which one would you choose? Owen or Martins?

 

 

Owen, if owens fully fit he's a clinical finisher i never have said he wasn't

i've always said we just paid too much for him

 

I agree we paid too much for him, but I don't get why you're still going on about it. How long ago did he sign?

 

I think he is just trying to explain that even though owen is a quality player, 17mil and 100k a week (5.2mil a year) is NOT justifiable where as martins was 10mil and 40k a week (2.1mil a year) is more justified in the number of goals scored by each.

Take into consideration owens injuries which only strengthens ants argument imo.

[Tom 13847]

Gemmill hates Martins.

 

Ant hates Owen.

 

We are in for a long one!

[Craig 6307]

Gemmill hates Martins.

 

Ant hates Owen.

 

We are in for a long one!

 

Let's get Ameobi-loving MattM4 in here and they can have a threesome...

[Tom 13847]

Gemmill hates Martins.

 

Ant hates Owen.

 

We are in for a long one!

 

Let's get Ameobi-loving MattM4 in here and they can have a threesome...

 

Get Jonny and Alex in and we are in for an orgy!

[Craig 6307]

we've got Chelsea next should be entertaining!

 

Knowing NUFC, we'll do what we did last season, play our fucking hearts out, deserve something and narrowly walk away with fuck all

 

Always the same - the teams we should beat, we never do. It's only when we get to play one of the teams who should cream us do we actually start playing as a team - it's frustrating as fuck.