Bloody Sunday

[ewerk 27016]

Craig, I'm not quite sure what the government of Ireland had to do with it, the problem was created by the British government.

 

Hopefully now that cunt Derek Wilford will have his OBE rescinded.

[manc-mag 1]

Got the utmost respect for everyone who has lived through the whole horrific state of affairs (whatever 'side' of the divide they're one) and still managed to conduct themselves with dignity and restraint. They proved to be the majority at the end of the day and I still find that remarkable even now. Just a phenomenal human achievement, individually and collectively.

 

I just hope the Inquiry findings help to continue the healing process rather than hinder it. That'll all be down to the people again though, digging deep and finding it in themselves to try to put the rawest emotions into an overall context of reconciliation. Like I say, nothing but respect.

[Park Life 71]

So Kevin support the IRA? that's unsurprising.

 

By the way, "shouldn't of done the bombings / shooting" 2nd brightest in your year? Jesus titty fucking Christ

 

Second toughest in the infants apparently.

[NJS 4026]

The thing is Craig as Cameron alluded to, soldiers are supposed to be subject to the rule of law in their actions. When I mentioned to LM that I supported sometimes "going down to their level" I didn't mean paratroopers firing on protestors who were innocent - I meant taking out McGuinness and his ilk "behind closed doors".

 

In public at least, you can't claim the moral high ground if you allow indiscipline like this to go unpunished. As I said 40 years on is probably too late and an acknowledgement that is was wrong should end the matter as far as I'm concerned.

[Kevin 1]

I think it's easy for people to point out the IRA to be the bad people in Ireland.

 

but what annoys me is when people fail to see the bad side of the british army just because your british, they also done some bad shit over there.

 

the black and tans and all that nonsense were sick as fuck

 

The IRA done bad things but many of them were provoked into joining it by the brutality of the british army. The IRA had a right to fight back to get people out of their country who were not wanted but some of the things they done were sick

 

not all the british troops are bad but there has always been throughout our history violent bastards and there always will be, even some of the stuff you hear in Iraq, just like Ireland britain said they wanted to go there to help and I heard a few Iraqis on the news one day a while back saying we feel more in danger now than when sadaam was in charge.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Kevin

[Guest alex]

[NJS 4026]

The retard has a point in his way - patriotism should never blind you to the excesses of the state.

[Craig 6328]

Kevin, I'm not really sure you deserve the time, but anyway - considering where you're from and what happened, do you not think it's a bit distasteful using this as a petty point-scoring / bash the British exercise?

You really feel no remorse for what YOUR troops done?

 

And that was what exactly? Do you know why they were there in the first place?

Yes I do. What was it they done? they killed 13 people. 7 of those teenagers.

 

Just when I think you can't be a bigger fucking dickhead - back you come.

 

There isn't one person who believes what happened that day wasn't wrong. But to try to take the moral high-ground is a piss-take of epic proportions. These were events that occurred before most of us were born and remorse for the actions that day have long been the sentiment. Let's look at another event that occured before you were born but that most of us remember all too well.

 

20th March 1993 - Warrington Town Centre. IRA blew the shit out of the place and killed a 3 year old boy instantly and maimed a 12 year old boy who later died of his injuries. Not teenagers in this instance because they never got the chance to get to that age. Totally wrong too wouldn't you say?

 

The whole period of troubles in Northern Ireland was a sad pathetic affair when too many people unnecessarily died. Thanks largely to the governments of the UK and Ireland, we're now in a time of peace and long may it continue. One day you'll be mature enough to understand how utterly pathetic and retarded you've been today.

 

Cameron has, quite rightly, waited for the report to be published before making a comment on it.

What happened in Warrington by the IRA wasn't right at all. As i've stated I don't support the IRA. Not in the slightest. I mightn't of said my points the most correct way so i apologise for that but it still is very wrong. What makes it worse is that every single one of those were innocent yet still people in here (not you) would argue with that.

 

Nobody is whiter than white and with the greatest of respect, you're showing age and immaturity when you make the comment in bold.

 

You can't possibly know that - it's conjecture. You've either heard the opinion of someone who was there or more likely, you've read it in biased press.

 

It's adundantly clear that something went dreadfully wrong that day and it's my honest belief that our armed forces wouldn't open fire on innocent peacefully protesting civilians for no reason whatsoever - I don't believe them to be 'totally innocent' but then again in no way at all does it justify the actions of the soldiers that day.

[Craig 6328]

Craig, I'm not quite sure what the government of Ireland had to do with it, the problem was created by the British government.

 

I was referring to their involvement in the peace-process.

[ewerk 27016]

FFS Craig, hasn't the report just said that those shot were innocent? It was a civil rights march. Your attitude is unbelievable tbh.

[Craig 6328]

The thing is Craig as Cameron alluded to, soldiers are supposed to be subject to the rule of law in their actions. When I mentioned to LM that I supported sometimes "going down to their level" I didn't mean paratroopers firing on protestors who were innocent - I meant taking out McGuinness and his ilk "behind closed doors".

 

In public at least, you can't claim the moral high ground if you allow indiscipline like this to go unpunished. As I said 40 years on is probably too late and an acknowledgement that is was wrong should end the matter as far as I'm concerned.

 

Agree totally with you - particularly with regards to McGuinness who in the younger generation's eyes has been seen more as a politician than a terrorist (some would say they are the same thing of course )

[The Fish 9309]

I don't think you can accuse people on here of being blindly patriotic. We know what this country has in it's closet. So I'm not sure what the Hell you're talking about Kevin, but to be fair, I don't think you do either.

 

fwiw I think you were expecting a partisan response instead of the fairly measured reaction you did get and are now trying to back out of it. You've been made to look a mug and should be embarrassed

[Kevin 1]

Kevin, I'm not really sure you deserve the time, but anyway - considering where you're from and what happened, do you not think it's a bit distasteful using this as a petty point-scoring / bash the British exercise?

You really feel no remorse for what YOUR troops done?

 

And that was what exactly? Do you know why they were there in the first place?

Yes I do. What was it they done? they killed 13 people. 7 of those teenagers.

 

Just when I think you can't be a bigger fucking dickhead - back you come.

 

There isn't one person who believes what happened that day wasn't wrong. But to try to take the moral high-ground is a piss-take of epic proportions. These were events that occurred before most of us were born and remorse for the actions that day have long been the sentiment. Let's look at another event that occured before you were born but that most of us remember all too well.

 

20th March 1993 - Warrington Town Centre. IRA blew the shit out of the place and killed a 3 year old boy instantly and maimed a 12 year old boy who later died of his injuries. Not teenagers in this instance because they never got the chance to get to that age. Totally wrong too wouldn't you say?

 

The whole period of troubles in Northern Ireland was a sad pathetic affair when too many people unnecessarily died. Thanks largely to the governments of the UK and Ireland, we're now in a time of peace and long may it continue. One day you'll be mature enough to understand how utterly pathetic and retarded you've been today.

 

Cameron has, quite rightly, waited for the report to be published before making a comment on it.

What happened in Warrington by the IRA wasn't right at all. As i've stated I don't support the IRA. Not in the slightest. I mightn't of said my points the most correct way so i apologise for that but it still is very wrong. What makes it worse is that every single one of those were innocent yet still people in here (not you) would argue with that.

 

Nobody is whiter than white and with the greatest of respect, you're showing age and immaturity when you make the comment in bold.

 

You can't possibly know that - it's conjecture. You've either heard the opinion of someone who was there or more likely, you've read it in biased press.

 

It's adundantly clear that something went dreadfully wrong that day and it's my honest belief that our armed forces wouldn't open fire on innocent peacefully protesting civilians for no reason whatsoever - I don't believe them to be 'totally innocent' but then again in no way at all does it justify the actions of the soldiers that day.

But it's just been proven in the Saville report? The report showed that not one of those people had a reason to be shot at. none of them were armed and a few of them were actually crawling trying to get away. It's a disgrace. I stated in a post before saying that not all british armed forces are the same but there can be no excuse for what happened.

[Craig 6328]

FFS Craig, hasn't the report just said that those shot were innocent? It was a civil rights march. Your attitude is unbelievable tbh.

 

Unbelievable because I don't buy every word in it?

 

Someone made the reference to Hillsborough earlier (Stevie probably) - the scousers will have you believe that they were 'totally innocent' that day but in reality it's considered that a minority of their fans had a small level of responsibility.

 

Innocent people were shot and that action was 100% wrong - what I'm saying is though I don't personally believe that every single person who marched that day didn't encite the troops in some way. But let me re-iterrate, it in no way excused or justified what occurred.

[Craig 6328]

Kevin, I'm not really sure you deserve the time, but anyway - considering where you're from and what happened, do you not think it's a bit distasteful using this as a petty point-scoring / bash the British exercise?

You really feel no remorse for what YOUR troops done?

 

And that was what exactly? Do you know why they were there in the first place?

Yes I do. What was it they done? they killed 13 people. 7 of those teenagers.

 

Just when I think you can't be a bigger fucking dickhead - back you come.

 

There isn't one person who believes what happened that day wasn't wrong. But to try to take the moral high-ground is a piss-take of epic proportions. These were events that occurred before most of us were born and remorse for the actions that day have long been the sentiment. Let's look at another event that occured before you were born but that most of us remember all too well.

 

20th March 1993 - Warrington Town Centre. IRA blew the shit out of the place and killed a 3 year old boy instantly and maimed a 12 year old boy who later died of his injuries. Not teenagers in this instance because they never got the chance to get to that age. Totally wrong too wouldn't you say?

 

The whole period of troubles in Northern Ireland was a sad pathetic affair when too many people unnecessarily died. Thanks largely to the governments of the UK and Ireland, we're now in a time of peace and long may it continue. One day you'll be mature enough to understand how utterly pathetic and retarded you've been today.

 

Cameron has, quite rightly, waited for the report to be published before making a comment on it.

What happened in Warrington by the IRA wasn't right at all. As i've stated I don't support the IRA. Not in the slightest. I mightn't of said my points the most correct way so i apologise for that but it still is very wrong. What makes it worse is that every single one of those were innocent yet still people in here (not you) would argue with that.

 

Nobody is whiter than white and with the greatest of respect, you're showing age and immaturity when you make the comment in bold.

 

You can't possibly know that - it's conjecture. You've either heard the opinion of someone who was there or more likely, you've read it in biased press.

 

It's adundantly clear that something went dreadfully wrong that day and it's my honest belief that our armed forces wouldn't open fire on innocent peacefully protesting civilians for no reason whatsoever - I don't believe them to be 'totally innocent' but then again in no way at all does it justify the actions of the soldiers that day.

But it's just been proven in the Saville report? The report showed that not one of those people had a reason to be shot at. none of them were armed and a few of them were actually crawling trying to get away. It's a disgrace. I stated in a post before saying that not all british armed forces are the same but there can be no excuse for what happened.

 

You're missing my point, but never mind.

[Kevin 1]

the reason you're all so defensive and find it hard to accept this is that they are your troops. It's not like the IRA are Irish troops ffs. The british army also shot at my parents who was with my brother when he was only 1. Yeah they provoked them to do it, they had guns they were in a f'ing taxi going home!

[Guest alex]

The report's just a PR exercise tbh. It's got fuck all to do with the truth. The truth's shrouded in 40 years of bullshit and shame on both sides.

[NJS 4026]

FFS Craig, hasn't the report just said that those shot were innocent? It was a civil rights march. Your attitude is unbelievable tbh.

 

Unbelievable because I don't buy every word in it?

 

Someone made the reference to Hillsborough earlier (Stevie probably) - the scousers will have you believe that they were 'totally innocent' that day but in reality it's considered that a minority of their fans had a small level of responsibility.

 

Innocent people were shot and that action was 100% wrong - what I'm saying is though I don't personally believe that every single person who marched that day didn't encite the troops in some way. But let me re-iterrate, it in no way excused or justified what occurred.

 

I agree with that - comparing it with Hillsborough is correct in the sense that accepting the conclusions doesn't mean you can't hold certain "reservations".

[Kevin 1]

now release the names of the paras and hold them to account the same way republican volenteers were.

[The Fish 9309]

No, what Craig is saying, if I get it right, is that it's impossible to say that nobody in that Civil Rights march was inciting the troops. It's impossible to say 100% of the march were innocent.

 

What every body is saying is that Cameron's apology is enough.

 

In my eyes it's similar to the de Menezes (sp?); the guys on the ground got duff information and they acted upon it with catastrophic results. You shouldn't hold them responsible for the murders, any more than you can hold a bullet responsible. They've followed orders. Sure, rail against the information gathering and the chain of command.

[NJS 4026]

In my eyes it's similar to the de Menezes (sp?); the guys on the ground got duff information and they acted upon it with catastrophic results. You shouldn't hold them responsible for the murders, any more than you can hold a bullet responsible. They've followed orders. Sure, rail against the information gathering and the chain of command.

 

I agree but in that case I think the buck should have stopped with Dick (the woman in charge on the day) and Blair (the copper).

[The Fish 9309]

now release the names of the paras and hold them to account the same way republican volenteers were.

 

No, moron. Soldiers are soldiers doing a job, republican volunteers as you charitably call them are scum.

[Kevin 1]

now release the names of the paras and hold them to account the same way republican volenteers were.

 

No, moron. Soldiers are soldiers doing a job, republican volunteers as you charitably call them are scum.

Doing a job? doing a fucking job? murdering innocent people is a "job"? fucking hell.

[ewerk 27016]

FFS Craig, hasn't the report just said that those shot were innocent? It was a civil rights march. Your attitude is unbelievable tbh.

 

Unbelievable because I don't buy every word in it?

 

Someone made the reference to Hillsborough earlier (Stevie probably) - the scousers will have you believe that they were 'totally innocent' that day but in reality it's considered that a minority of their fans had a small level of responsibility.

 

Innocent people were shot and that action was 100% wrong - what I'm saying is though I don't personally believe that every single person who marched that day didn't encite the troops in some way. But let me re-iterrate, it in no way excused or justified what occurred.

 

Right, so you know better than a high court judge and 7 years and £195m worth of inquiries?

 

The facts are that the soldiers were not in any danger and those shot were 100% innocent.

 

Yes there were guns and terrorists in the area, as there were every day of the week in that area but they were not a threat to the army on that day.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but your attitude appears to be, 'well they weren't shot for nothing'.

[The Fish 9309]

now release the names of the paras and hold them to account the same way republican volenteers were.

 

No, moron. Soldiers are soldiers doing a job, republican volunteers as you charitably call them are scum.

Doing a job? doing a fucking job? murdering innocent people is a "job"? fucking hell.

 

So we should release the name of every soldier ever? I mean if we're applying your backwards logic that Soldiers are somehow the decision makers in their role?