Rage against tuition fees...

[Kitman 2188]

As its only paid back after uni and only when a wage of £25,000? is being earned, I cant see how only the rich can afford it. Its not as if we are suddenly jumping from no fees to high fees, it is an increase in fees.

 

That's just wonderful.....when your mortgage goes up, it must make it really affordable because you're already paying interest !

[Guest alex]

I'd just like to point out I still fucking hate students btw

[Christmas Tree 3997]

25k isn't a lot of money though really. I appreciate what you're saying but the prospect of being saddled with debt for years will put people off. Plus, there is also the other costs of going to university, which are already high, which have to be factored in. I agree in part with what you say as well although I don't think cutting all funding for certain types of degrees is right either. I think it's quite short-sighted to cut funding to areas deemed 'not necessary' because it's the stuff that isn't necessary that makes life worth living imo. Re: skills needed though, I think you are spot on. Going back it was a big mistake to merge the universities and polytechnics because they both did different jobs, one being more academic and one being more vocational (that's a generalisation but you'll take my point) because it seems that academic studies rather than more hands-on, skills-based learning was seen as more important. You could point at a lot of other things that have been going wrong for a very long time like the end of proper apprenticeships and so on. When I was at school they wanted you to go to university because it 'looked good' for a state school to be sending people there but I think I could have been better advised by being told about how learning a trade or whatever is equally important (and lucrative tbh).

 

 

Totally agree. It really somehow needs updating so that a decent education is combined with a decent preperation for the choices you need to make pre 18.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

As its only paid back after uni and only when a wage of £25,000? is being earned, I cant see how only the rich can afford it. Its not as if we are suddenly jumping from no fees to high fees, it is an increase in fees.

 

I agree up to a point but the thing is the "rich" kids would be starting their working lives with no worries as Daddy will have paid the fees - two people who are academically equal are divided by a burden - as usual passing advantage down the generations.

 

 

Thats life unfortunately.

[Guest alex]

It's inevitable like you say and there's nothing wrong with paying for your kid's education if you have the capability. It's important that the gap between the two examples mentioned isn't too wide though. Otherwise the person without the rich parents may not go to university at all.

[NJS 3984]

As its only paid back after uni and only when a wage of £25,000? is being earned, I cant see how only the rich can afford it. Its not as if we are suddenly jumping from no fees to high fees, it is an increase in fees.

 

I agree up to a point but the thing is the "rich" kids would be starting their working lives with no worries as Daddy will have paid the fees - two people who are academically equal are divided by a burden - as usual passing advantage down the generations.

 

 

Thats life unfortunately.

 

So ongoing wealth depends not on what you do but what your parents did.

 

It might be life but stop trying to sell it like its a meritocracy - it isn't.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

As its only paid back after uni and only when a wage of £25,000? is being earned, I cant see how only the rich can afford it. Its not as if we are suddenly jumping from no fees to high fees, it is an increase in fees.

 

I agree up to a point but the thing is the "rich" kids would be starting their working lives with no worries as Daddy will have paid the fees - two people who are academically equal are divided by a burden - as usual passing advantage down the generations.

 

 

Thats life unfortunately.

 

So ongoing wealth depends not on what you do but what your parents did.

 

It might be life but stop trying to sell it like its a meritocracy - it isn't.

 

First of all, I didnt go to uni so using words that I have to google is uncalled for.

 

Secondly Im not selling anything, I was just stating that its a fact of life and not something you can really do anything about. Better off kids will get better toys.

[NJS 3984]

Secondly Im not selling anything, I was just stating that its a fact of life and not something you can really do anything about. Better off kids will get better toys.

 

But that's what was great about opening up the universities to all via grants - it didn't completely level the playing field but it was a huge step forward.

 

That gain has been steadily eroded - first by Blair and now massivley by Cameron and it has to be said it stinks of idealogical elitism rather than practicality.

 

.

[LeazesMag 0]

My two penneth worth.

 

Far too many people going to uni.

 

Cant see why I should fund some fucker on a shitty waste of time course like media or jewellery making etc.

 

Each year, whatever skills we are short in, by all means subsidise.

 

Lets not try and stick everyone through uni, unless they are happy to pay.

 

We should also have some sort of national / community service between the ages of 16 - 18

 

I don't see why anyone should pay for further education other than the person doing it.

 

It's not a right.

 

They only have to pay it back at a pretty easy rate once they're on good money.

 

 

absolutely right

Didn't you go back when grants were still pretty large in real terms? Not suggesting you're a massive hypocrite or anything.

 

[AgentAxeman 82]

Secondly Im not selling anything, I was just stating that its a fact of life and not something you can really do anything about. Better off kids will get better toys.

 

But that's what was great about opening up the universities to all via grants - it didn't completely level the playing field but it was a huge step forward.

 

That gain has been steadily eroded - first by Blair and now massivley by Cameron and it has to be said it stinks of idealogical elitism rather than practicality.

 

.

 

NJS, you may say it is entirely unfair that some children are given a better start in life than others. And I would absolutely have to agree with you. In the same way that it’s entirely unfair that some people are born fat or ugly or dyslexic or disabled or ginger or small or Welsh. Life, I’m afraid, is tragic.

 

 

EDIT: oh and someone earlier said something about national service for 16 - 18? Spot on idea which ive advocated for years.

Edited November 26, 2010 by AgentAxeman

[Meenzer 14060]

Going back it was a big mistake to merge the universities and polytechnics because they both did different jobs, one being more academic and one being more vocational (that's a generalisation but you'll take my point) because it seems that academic studies rather than more hands-on, skills-based learning was seen as more important. You could point at a lot of other things that have been going wrong for a very long time like the end of proper apprenticeships and so on. When I was at school they wanted you to go to university because it 'looked good' for a state school to be sending people there but I think I could have been better advised by being told about how learning a trade or whatever is equally important (and lucrative tbh).

 

Spot on, particularly the last part. There's something fundamentally wrong with a country that encourages as many kids as possible to go to university then has to import Eastern European people to earn higher wages than most graduates just because they know how to fix a boiler.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Cant see why I should fund some fucker on a shitty waste of time course like media or jewellery making etc.

 

Pretty sick and tired of hearing/reading this sort of thing. Most people who knock media courses probably don't know or understand what goes in them, that or they're against it because it's a relatively new educational subject and does not have the standing of your usual more academic courses.

 

 

Then you read up about them. There are scarsely any jobs in this industry but it is considered a "cool" degree to do.

 

It is verging on criminally dishonest to get someone wasting years of their life studying for something where the likelyhood of obtaining a job at the end of it is remote. (especially if they want the taxpayer to pay for it).

 

It was all good and well when money was aplenty and work too, for kids to have a jolly old time studying poetry etc etc etc. But really, what is the point of setting stupid targets to cram more and more kids through uni doing stupid courses when their is nothing at the end of it.

 

 

 

I did half a media degree for the record; so I am speaking from experience, and no I did not decide on said course because I thought it was "cool" and/or easy.

 

Given I actually have a clue what I'm talking about, I'd comfortably say that I did not waste my time doing it and I imagine that goes for all of my colleagues back then and indeed now. 

 

 

I'm well aware of how populated the media industries are but that shouldn't stop anyone from learning about them. I learned things that could be applied to other trades too, such as marketing.

[Holden McGroin 4892]

I think there probably are too many people going to university. However, the current measures are going to once again make it something only the rich are really able to afford. That isn't right imo and it's a massive step backwards for the country.

 

Spot on. Only the elitist will get the chance to go to University whereas the equally (if not more) intelligent poorer people wont.

 

I do agree that more apprenticeships should made available as another another avenue into a vocation though.

[Holden McGroin 4892]

Going back it was a big mistake to merge the universities and polytechnics because they both did different jobs, one being more academic and one being more vocational (that's a generalisation but you'll take my point) because it seems that academic studies rather than more hands-on, skills-based learning was seen as more important. You could point at a lot of other things that have been going wrong for a very long time like the end of proper apprenticeships and so on. When I was at school they wanted you to go to university because it 'looked good' for a state school to be sending people there but I think I could have been better advised by being told about how learning a trade or whatever is equally important (and lucrative tbh).

 

Spot on, particularly the last part. There's something fundamentally wrong with a country that encourages as many kids as possible to go to university then has to import Eastern European people to earn higher wages than most graduates just because they know how to fix a boiler.

 

I think the Eastern European's were actually doing every job dirt cheap compared to our tradesman.