Guest alex Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. The first part of the process is making an offer to the club and the club accepting the offer. The player is not involved until this point, other than through an agent who always has a vested interest in getting the player to think about it. Its first of all about whether Stoke want £12m for the player. If they do, then its down to whether the agent can persuade the player (if needed) to discuss terms which may be better than what he is on. Then the transfer happens. Why would Nolan go to West Ham? Newcastle = premier league. Its a no brainer. and he did, because he found West Ham a more attractive club. Why indeed would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for Newcastle ? Lets see if it actually happens first. More attractive club or more attractive contract? Same thing? I asked Pop Robson once, about him leaving Newcastle for West Ham after giving a press conference labelling NUFC as "unprofessional" ie lacking in ambition etc, and it is what he thought at the time. The wheel has turned full circle. If a company makes YOU a more attractive offer which mirrors they are a more attractive company, you would also leave. I agree that changing the team too much is a dangerous game but for the above to be true it would mean NUFC were a more attractive club than Real Madrid when Owen came and ditto Man Utd when we signed Alan Smith. Players move for more money / security all the time. With Nolan though I think if we'd wanted to keep him then a compromise could've been reached. Offering what West Ham have given him would've been stupid though. There's no way he'l be worth that in 3-4 years time. I don't have a problem with players asking for money, its part of the game, the same as me and you would move for money. Why do arseholes see it as an evil, and try to justify football politics by using it ? The simple fact Alex is if you want to have quality footballers at your football club, you have to attract them with the current rate and a show of ambition in line with their desire to play at the top and be as successful as they can be. That is totally normal, and any player who doesn't harbour such ambitions, well - you shouldn't touch them to be honest, if they don't have the desire to succeed at the highest levels. Agree to an extent. I think Nolan is getting a ridiculous contract though fwiw. Especially given the situation West Ham are in so it's not the best example really. I'd be more than happy to give Enrique and Colo a similar type of deal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 48 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. The first part of the process is making an offer to the club and the club accepting the offer. The player is not involved until this point, other than through an agent who always has a vested interest in getting the player to think about it. Its first of all about whether Stoke want £12m for the player. If they do, then its down to whether the agent can persuade the player (if needed) to discuss terms which may be better than what he is on. Then the transfer happens. Why would Nolan go to West Ham? Newcastle = premier league. Its a no brainer. and he did, because he found West Ham a more attractive club. Why indeed would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for Newcastle ? Lets see if it actually happens first. More attractive club or more attractive contract? Same thing? I asked Pop Robson once, about him leaving Newcastle for West Ham after giving a press conference labelling NUFC as "unprofessional" ie lacking in ambition etc, and it is what he thought at the time. The wheel has turned full circle. If a company makes YOU a more attractive offer which mirrors they are a more attractive company, you would also leave. Not always. Depends on your outlook I guess. Money isnt always the only factor. Look at Perch, he has came out saying he wants a move. That is likely a move down a division. Also for less money. Yet his new club would be more attractive to him, yet on less money and in a lower league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 48 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. The first part of the process is making an offer to the club and the club accepting the offer. The player is not involved until this point, other than through an agent who always has a vested interest in getting the player to think about it. Its first of all about whether Stoke want £12m for the player. If they do, then its down to whether the agent can persuade the player (if needed) to discuss terms which may be better than what he is on. Then the transfer happens. Why would Nolan go to West Ham? Newcastle = premier league. Its a no brainer. and he did, because he found West Ham a more attractive club. Why indeed would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for Newcastle ? Lets see if it actually happens first. More attractive club or more attractive contract? Same thing? I asked Pop Robson once, about him leaving Newcastle for West Ham after giving a press conference labelling NUFC as "unprofessional" ie lacking in ambition etc, and it is what he thought at the time. The wheel has turned full circle. If a company makes YOU a more attractive offer which mirrors they are a more attractive company, you would also leave. I agree that changing the team too much is a dangerous game but for the above to be true it would mean NUFC were a more attractive club than Real Madrid when Owen came and ditto Man Utd when we signed Alan Smith. Players move for more money / security all the time. With Nolan though I think if we'd wanted to keep him then a compromise could've been reached. Offering what West Ham have given him would've been stupid though. There's no way he'l be worth that in 3-4 years time. I don't have a problem with players asking for money, its part of the game, the same as me and you would move for money. Why do arseholes see it as an evil, and try to justify football politics by using it ? The simple fact Alex is if you want to have quality footballers at your football club, you have to attract them with the current rate and a show of ambition in line with their desire to play at the top and be as successful as they can be. That is totally normal, and any player who doesn't harbour such ambitions, well - you shouldn't touch them to be honest, if they don't have the desire to succeed at the highest levels. Agree to an extent. I think Nolan is getting a ridiculous contract though fwiw. Especially given the situation West Ham are in so it's not the best example really. I'd be more than happy to give Enrique and Colo a similar type of deal though. Also totally agree with both. If you want the best players you pay the best wages. We cant pay the best so wont get the best. No next its what can you do with what we do have and thats down to the manager and coaching team etc. Id liked Nolan to have stayed, but if we gave him a 5 year deal we would have raised an eye brow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. The first part of the process is making an offer to the club and the club accepting the offer. The player is not involved until this point, other than through an agent who always has a vested interest in getting the player to think about it. Its first of all about whether Stoke want £12m for the player. If they do, then its down to whether the agent can persuade the player (if needed) to discuss terms which may be better than what he is on. Then the transfer happens. Why would Nolan go to West Ham? Newcastle = premier league. Its a no brainer. and he did, because he found West Ham a more attractive club. Why indeed would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for Newcastle ? Lets see if it actually happens first. More attractive club or more attractive contract? Same thing? I asked Pop Robson once, about him leaving Newcastle for West Ham after giving a press conference labelling NUFC as "unprofessional" ie lacking in ambition etc, and it is what he thought at the time. The wheel has turned full circle. If a company makes YOU a more attractive offer which mirrors they are a more attractive company, you would also leave. I agree that changing the team too much is a dangerous game but for the above to be true it would mean NUFC were a more attractive club than Real Madrid when Owen came and ditto Man Utd when we signed Alan Smith. Players move for more money / security all the time. With Nolan though I think if we'd wanted to keep him then a compromise could've been reached. Offering what West Ham have given him would've been stupid though. There's no way he'l be worth that in 3-4 years time. I don't have a problem with players asking for money, its part of the game, the same as me and you would move for money. Why do arseholes see it as an evil, and try to justify football politics by using it ? The simple fact Alex is if you want to have quality footballers at your football club, you have to attract them with the current rate and a show of ambition in line with their desire to play at the top and be as successful as they can be. That is totally normal, and any player who doesn't harbour such ambitions, well - you shouldn't touch them to be honest, if they don't have the desire to succeed at the highest levels. A bit like Nolan whose desire was to play in the championship. You've undone yourself there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. The first part of the process is making an offer to the club and the club accepting the offer. The player is not involved until this point, other than through an agent who always has a vested interest in getting the player to think about it. Its first of all about whether Stoke want £12m for the player. If they do, then its down to whether the agent can persuade the player (if needed) to discuss terms which may be better than what he is on. Then the transfer happens. Why would Nolan go to West Ham? Newcastle = premier league. Its a no brainer. and he did, because he found West Ham a more attractive club. Why indeed would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for Newcastle ? Lets see if it actually happens first. More attractive club or more attractive contract? Same thing? I asked Pop Robson once, about him leaving Newcastle for West Ham after giving a press conference labelling NUFC as "unprofessional" ie lacking in ambition etc, and it is what he thought at the time. The wheel has turned full circle. If a company makes YOU a more attractive offer which mirrors they are a more attractive company, you would also leave. I agree that changing the team too much is a dangerous game but for the above to be true it would mean NUFC were a more attractive club than Real Madrid when Owen came and ditto Man Utd when we signed Alan Smith. Players move for more money / security all the time. With Nolan though I think if we'd wanted to keep him then a compromise could've been reached. Offering what West Ham have given him would've been stupid though. There's no way he'l be worth that in 3-4 years time. I don't have a problem with players asking for money, its part of the game, the same as me and you would move for money. Why do arseholes see it as an evil, and try to justify football politics by using it ? The simple fact Alex is if you want to have quality footballers at your football club, you have to attract them with the current rate and a show of ambition in line with their desire to play at the top and be as successful as they can be. That is totally normal, and any player who doesn't harbour such ambitions, well - you shouldn't touch them to be honest, if they don't have the desire to succeed at the highest levels. A bit like Nolan whose desire was to play in the championship. You've undone yourself there. he sees West Ham as more attractive ? Maybe in a year or so they might be ? Either way, its a sad indictment on Newcastle united that they have lost him to a club "currently" in a lower league than us. If Alan Pardew had came out and said it was [truthfully] his decision to sell, and he is given ALL the cash from ALL his sales to do as he chooses, then it would be a different ball game. Understand that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off? Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off?Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? I think that's basically what they would have been implying when they accepted the bid for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off?Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? I think the club could've done more to keep him if they'd really wanted to but he only left because West Ham made their offer, i.e. if he didn't want to leave and no one was out there willing to give him a better contract he wouldn't have gone anywhere. For a start it's a different situation to Barton because he has two years left on his current deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off?Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? I think the club could've done more to keep him if they'd really wanted to but he only left because West Ham made their offer, i.e. if he didn't want to leave and no one was out there willing to give him a better contract he wouldn't have gone anywhere. For a start it's a different situation to Barton because he has two years left on his current deal. True but there is a definite impression that if it's decided a player is surplus to requirements then they are made feel "unwelcome," no? Or is it just coincidence/speculation that Nolan, Barton and Carroll have all alluded to being made feel that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7244 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off?Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? I think the club could've done more to keep him if they'd really wanted to but he only left because West Ham made their offer, i.e. if he didn't want to leave and no one was out there willing to give him a better contract he wouldn't have gone anywhere. For a start it's a different situation to Barton because he has two years left on his current deal. True but there is a definite impression that if it's decided a player is surplus to requirements then they are made feel "unwelcome," no? Or is it just coincidence/speculation that Nolan, Barton and Carroll have all alluded to being made feel that way? I would suggest if West Ham were offering him £10K a week less, he'd have lived with any feeling of being unwelcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would suggest if West Ham were offering him £10K a week less, he'd have lived with any feeling of being unwelcome. Can you guarantee that? Club captain and last seasons highest goal scorer suddenly money grabbing cunt - besides perch, there is something fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 For the sake of argument, what if Nolan, like it seems has happened to Barton, was told by the club, MA/DL, to do one and fuck off?Does that still make Nolan a greedy cunt for moving on? I think that's basically what they would have been implying when they accepted the bid for him? would tend to go with that way of thinking, and because the manager isn't being given the cash from his sales only re-inforces it. Anyway, the bigger picture is that whatever the speculation on Nolan, you can't judge a clubs overall transfer policy on one player, which is what some people are attempting to do here ie the Ashley sympathisers. After 4 years, the policy has contributed massively to the lowering of expectations and with it the decline of the club. Unfortunately until we see differently, then that is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would suggest if West Ham were offering him £10K a week less, he'd have lived with any feeling of being unwelcome. Can you guarantee that? Club captain and last seasons highest goal scorer suddenly money grabbing cunt - besides perch, there is something fishy. Mikey boy has until september 1st to convince Toonpack ..... Gonna be some spectacular u-turns. Or username changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It's difficult with the Nolan situation. He was hugely important for the last 2 years. Did Pardew want to build a team around him? I believe Rapey mentioned he'd have to fight for his place or something similar towards the end of the season. Do the pricks in charge want rid of Nolan for being too big a voice? Nolan mentioned he was happy to be made 'feel wanted' by West Ham Was Nolan really chasing an extra £5k+ per week and willing to drop a division to get it? He didn't seem that greedy to me, but he is a footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It came down to a choice between 1. An incentivised contract, maybe 2 years in length or 2. 5 years 50k/week. Probably large bonuses for promotion. Put yourself in Nolan's shoes, it's an easy career decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I thought I saw that Nolan was offered a similar deal here, but an extra year and £10k p/w increase would be added on should we finish top 10. Actually fuck it. If the manager wanted him to stay, he should have been retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 He wasn't offered a similar deal in that he was offered 2/3 years here max, whereas WH offered him a 5 year contract. By the way Deano, what happened to your Football manager thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 By the way Deano, what happened to your Football manager thread? It was sent to the gaming forum where it lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 He wasn't offered a similar deal in that he was offered 2/3 years here max, whereas WH offered him a 5 year contract. By the way Deano, what happened to your Football manager thread? maybe it should be incorporated into this one ? Same old, same old, etc etc etc etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. You've easily turned into the most cynical on here like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TicTacWoe 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think we could get Shawcross in theory and I rate him. As with many of our recent decisions/purchases etc, it would still be a big risk if hes replacing Colo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) As has been said, he'd make a very good partner for Colo. As a replacement? For all the aggression and physicality he'd bring, he isn't fit to lace Colo's boots in terms of technique; we'd be losing as much as we gained imo. Seems pointless for a big fee just to lower the wage bill, Colo is worth his wages. Edited June 21, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. You've easily turned into the most cynical on here like. I wouldnt disagree that either tbh but I now see Stoke as a bigger club in terms of current football standing (and you could never gauge how hard that is for me to say!). FA Cup final, Europa league next season, hes captain there and much liked by the fans. Stoke made it clear he wasnt for sale so to then sell them to a club who is a rival for league places wouldnt seem sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Its an extremely sad thing to say but why would Shawcross want to leave Stoke for here? Stoke = Europe. Its a no brainer. You've easily turned into the most cynical on here like. I wouldnt disagree that either tbh but I now see Stoke as a bigger club in terms of current football standing (and you could never gauge how hard that is for me to say!). FA Cup final, Europa league next season, hes captain there and much liked by the fans. Stoke made it clear he wasnt for sale so to then sell them to a club who is a rival for league places wouldnt seem sensible. Would you have said Portsmouth were when they were in a similar position? I can't say the likes of Ben Arfa, Cabaye or Marveaux would have chosen to sign for Stoke over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Imagine if Tiote had signed for Stoke, it'd be like fighting the Borg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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