Pardew - two players max to come in during the January window

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Dont think anyone disagrees that the success is despite of Mike rather than because of it... Instead of being in debt everywhere, we have a huge debt to mike. Still..

[manc-mag 1]

I don't honestly feel like we've sustained anything (meaning genuine top flight high performance) for more than three seasons on the belt since I've been supporting the club. I'm happy to credit the H&S with that obviously, but I think sustainability is the wrong word altogether.

 

It's insane this tbh, even more so when you read the various points and realise theres some good debaters here too, wasted on the worst debate of all time.

[The Fish 9234]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

[trophyshy 6443]

I've reached the conclusion this forum only exists to have this endless conversation. It's like a part of Dante's vision.

 

Is this our punishment for booing SBR?

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

[LeazesMag 0]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete . Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

fuck me sideways.

 

Do I have to say again SHOW ME WHERE i HAVE SAID WE MUST COMPETE WITH CHELSEA AND MAN CITY ...

 

which is NOT the reason why people wanted rid of the previous regime at the time either.....

[manc-mag 1]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

To be fair HF did you an injustice when he said it was you perpetuating the argument as it was pretty obvious to anyone who was watching those threads in 'real time' the other evening why you responded as you did. He'd basically trawled four or five threads (completely different subjects) making exactly the same old regime nuanced points. Jaw D's post in this thread sums it up when he said he 'could have walked into any one of five threads', it was getting daft. The board is all the shitter for it basically.

[LeazesMag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

[LeazesMag 0]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

To be fair HF did you an injustice when he said it was you perpetuating the argument as it was pretty obvious to anyone who was watching those threads in 'real time' the other evening why you responded as you did. He'd basically trawled four or five threads (completely different subjects) making exactly the same old regime nuanced points. Jaw D's post in this thread sums it up when he said he 'could have walked into any one of five threads', it was getting daft. The board is all the shitter for it basically.

 

instead, its all the better for you babbling on about nothing in particular, disagreeing with me about anything and everything, even when what I say will happen actually happens. I've asked you a pertinent and relevant question, which should be quite simple for you to answer.

 

Go on, be controversial.

 

As was said by HF [i think], Fish jumped in and addressed a comment towards me for no reason in particular, which started this off.

 

I didn't realise I was now going to get the blame for other people making posts and derailing threads too ?

 

Give yourself a shake man.

Edited November 23, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Lake Bells tits 1]

We could have responsibly spent a hell of a lot more than we have done though, wonder what league position that would have put us in. Even moderate spending with a scout like Carr could have fired us straight into the top 4, seing as arsenal seems reluctant to spend anything and Liverpool spends fortunes on tripledecker shit-sandwiches. We could easily have had a squad rivalling tottenham in depth by simply spending the carroll money and another 10-15 mill from the sales this summer.

 

That isnt going to happen because Mike wants to recuperate his losses, but even when we are barely firing on half our sylinders spendingwise ( understatement of the year) we are doing very well, thanks to our scouts.

 

So rather than moan about what could have been, I just enjoy fotball for the time being. Aint nothing gonna come out of typing whines rivalling Lord of the rings length-wise...

Edited November 23, 2011 by Saltwater

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

Respond to the points with a valid argument of why they are incorrect

[Happy Face 29]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

To be fair HF did you an injustice when he said it was you perpetuating the argument as it was pretty obvious to anyone who was watching those threads in 'real time' the other evening why you responded as you did. He'd basically trawled four or five threads (completely different subjects) making exactly the same old regime nuanced points. Jaw D's post in this thread sums it up when he said he 'could have walked into any one of five threads', it was getting daft. The board is all the shitter for it basically.

 

Has LM duped me? The diabolical genius.

[manc-mag 1]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

To be fair HF did you an injustice when he said it was you perpetuating the argument as it was pretty obvious to anyone who was watching those threads in 'real time' the other evening why you responded as you did. He'd basically trawled four or five threads (completely different subjects) making exactly the same old regime nuanced points. Jaw D's post in this thread sums it up when he said he 'could have walked into any one of five threads', it was getting daft. The board is all the shitter for it basically.

 

instead, its all the better for you babbling on about nothing in particular, disagreeing with me about anything and everything, even when what I say will happen actually happens. I've asked you a pertinent and relevant question, which should be quite simple for you to answer.

 

Go on, be controversial.

 

As was said by HF [i think], Fish jumped in and addressed a comment towards me for no reason in particular, which started this off.

 

I didn't realise I was now going to get the blame for other people making posts and derailing threads too ?

 

Give yourself a shake man.

 

No, it's just my opinion that it's getting daft thats all. If you think five different threads needed the same point being made several times in each, simultaneously then fair enough but I don't think many would agree with you on that from the point of view of the overall board experience. I just think HF called it wrong as he wasn't viewing when Fish posted, but I dunno he could still think you were making a good contribution with all those posts for all I know.

[LeazesMag 0]

fwiw, I don't disagree with Leazes' points because it's Leazes. I just can't abide the way he goes on. He makes up positions for others, he puts "things" in "quotation marks" for no good God damned reason. He infects every thread with the same fucking argument, week in, week out.

 

The model H&S used would not work now because the landscape of domestic football in England has changed to such a degree that you need hundreds of millions on player purchases alone, to compete. Even back then, the vast sums spent by that regime weren't so out of whack with the rest of the top flight.

 

These days even Man U can't compete with the spending power of Man City (£360m in four years).

 

Frankly, unless Bill Gates wants to buy out a Premier League club the only way we'll return to the top table is to steadily improve on our position. The only way that we can do that is to find good players abroad or at home and improve the squad little by little. As I said before, I've no doubt this is not as exciting as the boom and bust years under H&S, but it's less likely to leave us staring at Jean Alain Boumsong's £9m price tag and inflated wage with a mixture of disbelief and resignation.

 

To be fair HF did you an injustice when he said it was you perpetuating the argument as it was pretty obvious to anyone who was watching those threads in 'real time' the other evening why you responded as you did. He'd basically trawled four or five threads (completely different subjects) making exactly the same old regime nuanced points. Jaw D's post in this thread sums it up when he said he 'could have walked into any one of five threads', it was getting daft. The board is all the shitter for it basically.

 

instead, its all the better for you babbling on about nothing in particular, disagreeing with me about anything and everything, even when what I say will happen actually happens. I've asked you a pertinent and relevant question, which should be quite simple for you to answer.

 

Go on, be controversial.

 

As was said by HF [i think], Fish jumped in and addressed a comment towards me for no reason in particular, which started this off.

 

I didn't realise I was now going to get the blame for other people making posts and derailing threads too ?

 

Give yourself a shake man.

 

No, it's just my opinion that it's getting daft thats all. If you think five different threads needed the same point being made several times in each, simultaneously then fair enough but I don't think many would agree with you on that from the point of view of the overall board experience. I just think HF called it wrong as he wasn't viewing when Fish posted, but I dunno he could still think you were making a good contribution with all those posts for all I know.

 

oh, I agree its getting daft. Its getting daft the amount of people who don't read anything and take up a contrary position just because they see it is me that is posting.

 

And its getting daft the amount of people who are confusing a good set of results against generally the weaker opposition in the league with what they incorrectly perceive as a progressive setup and ambitious outlook of the football club.

[LeazesMag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

Respond to the points with a valid argument of why they are incorrect

 

I've had enough of responding to you. I've tried to explain to you why the club is not set up to challenge for where it should.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

Respond to the points with a valid argument of why they are incorrect

 

I've had enough of responding to you. I've tried to explain to you why the club is not set up to challenge for where it should.

No you have not, all you do is spout the same old drivel about what happened years ago. The points I make above are valid and relevant to how the game is in 2011/2012 and the reason you can't address them is that your typical stock responses won't work. Now IF you can, please explain which of my points I made are incorrect bearing in mind its 2011/2012 season now, ok??

 

You also mentioned where we should be competing, where do you think we should realistically be competing? Champions? Top 4? Europa league?

Edited November 23, 2011 by jaythesouthernmag

[Happy Face 29]

If only Harry Hill would invite Shepherd and Ashley on to have it out before the commercial break.

[LeazesMag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

Respond to the points with a valid argument of why they are incorrect

 

I've had enough of responding to you. I've tried to explain to you why the club is not set up to challenge for where it should.

No you have not, all you do is spout the same old drivel about what happened years ago. The points I make above are valid and relevant to how the game is in 2011/2012 and the reason you can't address them is that your typical stock responses won't work. Now IF you can, please explain which of my points I made are incorrect bearing in mind its 2011/2012 season now, ok??

 

You also mentioned where we should be competing, where do you think we should realistically be competing? Champions? Top 4? Europa league?

 

I'm not saying what happened years ago, I'm telling you how clubs are successful. Wake up.

 

See the bit where you say "Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to", replace that with "Newcastle could compete but Ashley chooses not to".

 

Is that relevant enough for you ?

Edited November 23, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 7071]

 

I'm not saying what happened years ago, I'm telling you how clubs are successful. Wake up.

 

See the bit where you say "Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to", replace that with "Newcastle could compete but Ashley chooses not to".

 

Is that relevant enough for you ?

 

But that is the problem you patently are not, you have absolutely no clue about how the successful clubs are successful. Which is simply illustrated by the fact that these so called successful clubs (outside of the mega-backed 2) run, and always have as far as I know, within the VERY operating model NUFC now has in place, that very model you disdian so much. Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and yes, even Man U. They all back their managers "within their means" and not above or beyond those means. That is a stone cold nailed down FACT.

 

No other club in the league (bar maybe Everton) were, or are, run on the “bank cash only” top-up model, as we were. (Oh aye, and Portsmouth and Leeds, but we saw what happened there).

 

Why can’t it work for NUFC, seriously ??

 

We are bigger than most, I would even suggest if Liverpool’s trophy famine continues we should even overtake them (and before you say it NO, we were never, and are not, considered bigger than them within the game).

 

What could slow us down is the level and rapidity of Ashley’s debt recovery, but even with that we are set up better than most, simply because of our size. Even if he recoups quickly (which is fundamentally different to pocketting btw), why shouldn’t he, if he hadn’t put it in in the first place we’d have been knackered and there’s a case to be made for being really debt free “the sooner the better”.

 

No doubt some will just say, oh well once he’s got his debt back he’ll cream the profits. Personally I don’t see it, the annual profits likely to be realised are casino money/pocket change to someone like him. He’s more likely to sell it, IMO.

 

Alternatively he could really go for the SD publicity vehicle angle, but for that to really work NUFC would have to be succesfull over and above "run of the mill" premiership standard. Why?, because SD's stated target markets for expansion in the next 5 years are: Spain, Germany, Italy, Greece (and bizzarely Estonia, Slovenia and Finland) with continued growth in France, Belgium and Holland. Decent viewing and thus brand penetration in those countries will need European football competition exposure simply because of the strength of their established home leagues, exposure via a run of the mill Premiership club just won't cut it enough.

 

On the odd occassions I've watched a game in a bar in Europe there's been bugger all locals in, it's always Brits.

 

Either way we are set up for sustainable "success" what level that success will be, I dunno, maybe we'll even win things, but that part of the equation will come down to striking it lucky with a manager, as it always does, for everyone.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see there is absolutely no way we can compete financially with City,Man U,Chelsea and I would say also Liverpool.

 

Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to and wants to do it his way by bringing players through and not spending 30mil plus on players. They had to sell 2 world class players in Fabregas and Nasri, its the nature of the current game.

 

I'm not sure why people fail to see that money is king and there are a lot of clubs out there with cash to burn and if they set their sights on a player then its extremely difficult for that players club to hang onto their player

 

If anyone fails to acknowledge that the game is very different than the one where we played in the CL then they are deluded, plain and simple

 

Respond to the points with a valid argument of why they are incorrect

 

I've had enough of responding to you. I've tried to explain to you why the club is not set up to challenge for where it should.

No you have not, all you do is spout the same old drivel about what happened years ago. The points I make above are valid and relevant to how the game is in 2011/2012 and the reason you can't address them is that your typical stock responses won't work. Now IF you can, please explain which of my points I made are incorrect bearing in mind its 2011/2012 season now, ok??

 

You also mentioned where we should be competing, where do you think we should realistically be competing? Champions? Top 4? Europa league?

 

I'm not saying what happened years ago, I'm telling you how clubs are successful. Wake up.

 

See the bit where you say "Arsenal could compete but Wenger chooses not to", replace that with "Newcastle could compete but Ashley chooses not to".

 

Is that relevant enough for you ?

It would be if a) you answered my points and maybe explain how and which teams you think we should be competing with.

 

I look forward to your irrelevant answer

[DEADMAN 0]

i cant see us getten anyone in january ashleys a tight arse cunterhead hahahaha

[Lake Bells tits 1]

lol Deadman bang on the money as usual

[The Fish 9234]

Just for clarity I responded in this thread randomly as I thought it irrelevant which of the several threads Leazes had "contributed"* to that I spoke my mind.

 

Again he fails to realise my points, he instead prefers to question me about the previous regime while supping on his lemonade.

 

So, I'll state my case again. Leazes cannot form a cogent argument. Leazes does not understand punctuation. Leazes will not entertain ideas that, regardless of whomsoever posts them, counter his own. Leazes shall not ever release his iron grip on this particular topic until either a) we all die, 2) he's proven right/wrong beyond all doubt** iii) his internet provider takes pity on the world and bans him from participating in online discussions.

 

Leazes, you've yet to suggest a way, in this domestic football landscape, to achieve the success we all crave. You simply say that Ashley's boring "slow progression while keeping costs down and profits up" model won't work. Tell us how you genuinely think we can compete with Spurs and the like to surpass the position we'll find ourselves in come the end of the season (general consensus being 7th). Especially given we can't promise anybody Europe (too many competitors for that assertion to ring true), we can't afford to fill anybodies pocket with fat wages (but then neither do Spurs to be fair). So far, under Ashley's regime we've seen the best Left back at the club in ... well Enrique was the best LB I've ever seen lace up his boots for us, Coloccini is fast becoming one of the best CBs I've seen in 25 years following NUFC, Tiote is the best defensive midfielder I've seen, and players like Cabaye, Ba, Krul all have the potential to be real stars for this club.

 

Now compare those players to those signed under the much vaunted "speculate to accumulate" times under H&S. Luque, Boumsong, Marcelino, Gavilan, Bassedas, Domi, Distin, Bramble, Owen, Martins, Viana, Cort, Smith off the top of my head. Not all of these broke the bank, but all of these cost us money and fucked off and none of these (to my memory) did we make a profit on. Highlight the players who not only came for a large fee, but demanded a large wage too and you'll see why most people are willing to give this new idea of trusting scouts and trying to unearth gems, ahead of seeing Duff available for £6,6 and panicking into buying a name instead of looking at N'Zogbia (who you've recently lauded as a good player) and saying "we don't need another left winger".

 

*correct use of quotation marks there pal

** this will take NUFC to win cups and attain high league positions consistently for... oh, I dunno, thirty years? OR Another club to boom and bust their way to cup and league success using the same model that H&S used in their time, prompting our own owner (whomever it may be) to adopt the same model and achieve the same success... which won't happen either.

[ChezGiven 0]

Pissed again.

[The Fish 9234]

right again