Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hate to be a pedant, but Jonny wasn't asking what you thought he has going for him, but rather what he has shown. For example, you state he whips in a great ball 1st time (I'm paraphrasing), but that's not something I would immediately associate with him. I would say that he commits players, because I've seen him do it consistently. I've not seen him show a propensity to whip in great 1st time balls. and re: the other thread, I'll reiterate; You've said why we are good, but haven't taken into account the fact that other teams had an unusually poor league season. All the things I described he has shown. Re the other thread. I listed the reasons why we are better than last year regardless of what anyone else does or doesnt do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9016 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 All the things I described he has shown. Re the other thread. I listed the reasons why we are better than last year regardless of what anyone else does or doesnt do. That's not how leagues work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 He can defend similarly to the way Jonas was doing last season.He can receive the ball out wide and deliver a great cross in first time. He can take players on and dribble the ball into the box. He seems to have no fear. You could say the same thing for all of those for Sammy apart from the defending part. That's simply because his best position is further advanced up the field than Ferguson though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Still you never seem to answer whenever I mention the fact Ferguson has shown no end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 WUM. If you were a scout on FM, you'd have 1 for your judging potential attribute. I'd be a straight up 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) That's not how leagues work. You're assuming other teams will improve and be better than us based on nowt really. I have tried to explain why we are better and why they may not be. It seems as though I'm wasting my time. Goodnight sweetie Edited July 30, 2012 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Your assuming other teams will improve and be better than us based on nowt really. I have tried to explain why we are netter and why they may not. It seems as though I'm wasting my time. Goodnight sweetie Don't bother arguing with Fish, he's a total WUM who serves no other purpose than trying to get a rise out of people. He is impervious to logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You could say the same thing for all of those for Sammy apart from the defending part. That's simply because his best position is further advanced up the field than Ferguson though. End of the day Johnny it's a no win and just opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Still you never seem to answer whenever I mention the fact Ferguson has shown no end product. Not sure what you want me to answer? A lot of the time Pardew has used him in the new Jonas role which he has done well. He whips crosses in, takes on defenders, wins corners and very nearly scored against Stoke. I think given what he has been asked to do he has done very well. I'm not too sure where you are heading with this? They are both young squad players who are progressing. You think Sammy edges it, I think Shane does. Draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9016 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You're assuming other teams will improve and be better than us based on nowt really. I have tried to explain why we are better and why they may not be. It seems as though I'm wasting my time. Goodnight sweetie No I'm not. I'm assuming nothing. I'm suggesting that given the perfect storm that was last season, it'd be presumptuous to predict a better season this time round. Chelsea & Liverpool's poor league season, Spurs final run in collapse, Swansea and Norwich, the poor performance of traditionally midtable sides (B'burn & Bolton). I'm saying that, all things being equal and other teams performing the way we would normally expect, I'd expect us to finish around 7th or 8th. I'm expecting the European and Cup competitions to be more of a drain on our resources and I'm expecting 2nd season syndrome to affect a few of our players too. I'm not saying it definitely will, just that it makes sense to shift expectations down from what was a truly surprising and wonderful season. Oh and by adding "Sweetie" to the end of your post just to be condescending is daft. Given I look down my nose at you it's not gonna fly tubby. Mods/Admin, if you want to toss this exchange back in the other thread, it'd stop this one going off track, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 No I'm not. I'm assuming nothing. I'm suggesting that given the perfect storm that was last season, it'd be presumptuous to predict a better season this time round. Chelsea & Liverpool's poor league season, Spurs final run in collapse, Swansea and Norwich, the poor performance of traditionally midtable sides (B'burn & Bolton). I'm saying that, all things being equal and other teams performing the way we would normally expect, I'd expect us to finish around 7th or 8th. I'm expecting the European and Cup competitions to be more of a drain on our resources and I'm expecting 2nd season syndrome to affect a few of our players too. I'm not saying it definitely will, just that it makes sense to shift expectations down from what was a truly surprising and wonderful season. Oh and by adding "Sweetie" to the end of your post just to be condescending is daft. Given I look down my nose at you it's not gonna fly tubby. Mods/Admin, if you want to toss this exchange back in the other thread, it'd stop this one going off track, sorry. I think your outlook is assuming the best will happen for others and the worst for us. As we stand for all the reasons I listed I already think we will be a better team than last year. The difference is whether you now think we have a top 5 team or as you believe, we were flukey. I do believe we have a top 5 team and it's them that should be worrying about us not the other way around. It would also be nice if you managed a more personable discussion style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9016 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I think your outlook is assuming the best will happen for others and the worst for us. As we stand for all the reasons I listed I already think we will be a better team than last year. The difference is whether you now think we have a top 5 team or as you believe, we were flukey. I do believe we have a top 5 team and it's them that should be worrying about us not the other way around. It would also be nice if you managed a more personable discussion style Not the best, just the expected. Chelsea to return to the League title challenge. Liverpool to be top 7 for the majority of the season, for example. I don't believe we were flukey. I believe there existed an opportunity and we grasped it with both hands. It's all well and good a gap opening up between Man U, Man City et al, but if nobody steps up to fill it, the gap would remain. I'm happy to be personable with people who aren't trying to be condescending, "Sweetie". Edited July 30, 2012 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Don't bother arguing with Fish, he's a total WUM who serves no other purpose than trying to get a rise out of people. He is impervious to logic. I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I see what you did there. Stop following me around trying to get a rise out of me you WUMmy fuckbiscuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 We've got some good young lads on the books and with the UEFA cup this year they should get plenty of game time. Realistically I think we've done well if can remain around the top 8 and 2 of them can establish themselves as first team regulars over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6190 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It's definitely the first time in a long time that we've had such a plethora of talented players who look like they could have an impact at the top level. Disappointingly, since he had such a bright start and received glowing praise, has been the development of Vuckic. He's big and he can hit a ball, but he's clumsy, is horribly slow to get moving and most worryingly seems to take far too long to make decisions and even then gets them wrong a fair bit. Because of this I'm not setting my hopes too high for any of our other young players. I'm sure they're all chomping at the bit to get out there and prove themselves but short of injuries, cup runs or a selling spree I think they'll be at most bit players through this season. That's fine if it means that our superior first team are out on the pitch, because as yet none of these youngsters have done enough to unseat any of our first eleven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It's definitely the first time in a long time that we've had such a plethora of talented players who look like they could have an impact at the top level. Disappointingly, since he had such a bright start and received glowing praise, has been the development of Vuckic. He's big and he can hit a ball, but he's clumsy, is horribly slow to get moving and most worryingly seems to take far too long to make decisions and even then gets them wrong a fair bit. Because of this I'm not setting my hopes too high for any of our other young players. I'm sure they're all chomping at the bit to get out there and prove themselves but short of injuries, cup runs or a selling spree I think they'll be at most bit players through this season. That's fine if it means that our superior first team are out on the pitch, because as yet none of these youngsters have done enough to unseat any of our first eleven. How much of Vuckic have you seen? I think people forget about his injury(s) too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6190 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 How much of Vuckic have you seen? I think people forget about his injury(s) too. Have seen him play in 5 or 6 games. Not a lot granted, but it's the seeds that were planted in those games. Despite what I've said I've not entirely written him off, as as you've noted he has not has a consistent run of games and that could really improve his decision making. I think in our side though that type of player could be a bit of a luxury as he's not a good tackler and doesn't appear to have a great engine. Happy for him to show otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bias 3 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Have seen him play in 5 or 6 games. Not a lot granted, but it's the seeds that were planted in those games. Despite what I've said I've not entirely written him off, as as you've noted he has not has a consistent run of games and that could really improve his decision making. I think in our side though that type of player could be a bit of a luxury as he's not a good tackler and doesn't appear to have a great engine. Happy for him to show otherwise. He hasn't had a good pre season to be fair to him. Not long back fully fit though. I think he is a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14638 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You need pace to play effectively in the Premier League...its the major difference between good and very good players. Lee Clark was a good player who lacked the pace to mark him out as a very good player. Don't know how Vukic will shape up but if you've not got the pace for the Premier League at his age... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You need pace to play effectively in the Premier League...its the major difference between good and very good players. Lee Clark was a good player who lacked the pace to mark him out as a very good player. Don't know how Vukic will shape up but if you've not got the pace for the Premier League at his age... Loads of hype about this lad a few years ago and yet to show any glimpses imo. Again only based on a few cameo performances but he's not one that would get me excited if he was starting or came on. As someone said, he would definitely benefit from a season loan imo. Make or break him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bias 3 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 He had a couple of appearances last season an looked bright. Went on loan to Cardiff and done well, good player and I hope will play a lot this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Sammy - awesome, needs playing more Tav - get him out in the cups Vuckic - shite Fergy - shite Abeid - unknown Gosling - shite Bigi - looks good Amal - looks good Marv - looks good Others - not ready yet Marveaux isn't a kid I think he'll be one of our best players though. The rest it's too early to judge Bigi, Abeid and Amal, may even be too early this time next year. Agreed Gosling is shite. Vuckic is far from shite, he's a technician he looks about 30 but he is in fact 19 years of age. He needs regular football, and there are not many footballers capable of what he did against WBA at home in the whole Premiership, he is far from shite, and if he doesn't do it here, he'll do it somewhere like Wolfsburg or Napoli mark my words. Fergie, the fleeting glimpses I've seen for the first team he's shown promise. He doesn't hide and has energy, he nearly scored a worldy at Stoke, I can't fucking remember when it was though. Tav, looks like he's got the biggest cock in the clubs history, and the jury is out but has shown promise. I saw him at Carlisle last season and he reminded me of Glen Johnson he was excellent. The one that baffles me amongst most toon fans is Sammy, he's a fancy dan with no end product, he'd be a canny five a side player, but my feeling is he'll find his level somewhere like Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Fergie, the fleeting glimpses I've seen for the first team he's shown promise. He doesn't hide and has energy, he nearly scored a worldy at Stoke, I can't fucking remember when it was though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Aye that was the game we lost 4-0. Amazed people are writing him off, the vast majority of people here haven't seen him play football for more than 3 hours. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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