The Fish 9008 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 To be honest, if Colo is fit I'd be a lot more positive than if, say, Tiote was back. He's just such a leader of the back, they all take their cues from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 It was announced he'd be out for 6weeks (colo) No it wasn't, not officially at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Think some of you are worrying too much about the defence and not enough about the attack. Graft is all well and good but we have two quality strikers that are currently getting shit service. We cant go into every game as we currently are, hoping HBA is going to pull something out of the hat. If Pardew does not address the left wing we will continue to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 It's not just the left wing that needs addressing. It's the central midfield playing too deep, the lack of movement and fluidity in 442 etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6188 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Perch is supposedly back as well so I'd say we'll likely see him start at fullback with Anita in midfield and Bigi on the bench. Bigi will then be fresh to feature in the midweek European match. Can't see Coloccini being rushed back. Our best form of defence might have to be attack in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9008 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Think some of you are worrying too much about the defence and not enough about the attack. Graft is all well and good but we have two quality strikers that are currently getting shit service. We cant go into every game as we currently are, hoping HBA is going to pull something out of the hat. If Pardew does not address the left wing we will continue to struggle. Lets ignore your personal crusade for a moment and state it's pretty hard to attack if you've not got the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 5 games in, 1 loss, and we're "struggling"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Lets ignore your personal crusade for a moment and state it's pretty hard to attack if you've not got the ball. Problem is we get plenty of the ball in the first two thirds of the pitch and then it brakes down or is passed to HBA in the hope he can pull something off. As Jonny rightly says, part of this is due to the midfield not firing right, but a larger part is due to no outlet on the left. Currently what happens is that it goes to Jonas and then sometimes Santon will make a run and give us an option. He has become our main threat on the left. This unfortunately gives us no chance of a fast break down the left as Santon is always (rightly) doing his main job of covering left back. The element of surprise has gone by the time Jonas holds it up and Santon joins in. As for personnel I'm not too fussed who it is as long as they can provide service to Ba and Cisse. Obviously I think Marveaux or Ferguson should get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 5 games in, 1 loss, and we're "struggling"? Not sure whether you are being a) A drama queen, Perdantic or c) Don't quite understand? But we are certainly "struggling" to create chances for our strikers. Did you watch Villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9008 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 perdantic? Anyway, CT, my point is that it's not that the wide players haven't been making opportunities, it's that we're not going to have the ball. Newcastle will be chasing the ball a lot and that mean no ball to wide players, regardless of who it is. and I said personal, as in you want rid of Jonas. Boy could put in a Man of the Match performance but you'd point to "Shane's" one dribble against Bumfuck Idaho in a preseason game as evidence he should be starting ahead of him. It's boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 perdantic? Anyway, CT, my point is that it's not that the wide players haven't been making opportunities, it's that we're not going to have the ball. Newcastle will be chasing the ball a lot and that mean no ball to wide players, regardless of who it is. . This can only be based on you wanting to win am argument ( too long in Wolfy threads). We do not have a wide player on the left creating chances. We are not constantly chasing the ball. We have the ball plenty in the first two thirds and then struggle in the last third. Do you not understand these two points? Have you watched us play this season (serious question btw, not superman stuff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9008 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 This can only be based on you wanting to win am argument ( too long in Wolfy threads). We do not have a wide player on the left creating chances. We are not constantly chasing the ball. We have the ball plenty in the first two thirds and then struggle in the last third. Do you not understand these two points? Have you watched us play this season (serious question btw, not superman stuff). We're missing our best centre half (most likely) our first and second choice right back, our best defensive midfielder. I'm not talking about how we've performed without these absences in previous games, I'm talking about how we are going to perform without these players in the upcoming game against a competent, combative side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 More reason why we should get our attack right. We are no good when we simply try and soak up and defend. There is the possibility those who come in defensive wise, will do well. There is no possibility of us creating more from the left without Pardew doing something about it. I think this is a big season for Pardew and one where he needs to show he has the ability to be a top English manager. Part of that is making tough decisions, even taking the odd gamble. His detractors could point to a wealth of talent put on a plate for him last season by others. They could point to the "in camp" that ruled the roost, moved on by others. We are shite on the left, not creating chances for Ba and Cisse, over reliant on Ben Arfa and not getting anywhere near the best out of Cabaye. Time for Pardew to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 PLAY SHANE!!! Fyp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarStripes 0 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 More reason why we should get our attack right. We are no good when we simply try and soak up and defend. There is the possibility those who come in defensive wise, will do well. There is no possibility of us creating more from the left without Pardew doing something about it. I think this is a big season for Pardew and one where he needs to show he has the ability to be a top English manager. Part of that is making tough decisions, even taking the odd gamble. His detractors could point to a wealth of talent put on a plate for him last season by others. They could point to the "in camp" that ruled the roost, moved on by others. We are shite on the left, not creating chances for Ba and Cisse, over reliant on Ben Arfa and not getting anywhere near the best out of Cabaye. Time for Pardew to step up. I have to agree with CT like. If we are going to be weakened in defence we have to be stronger in attack, have the ball more, keep it better, use it better and lessen the threat that can be put on our distrupted defensive unit. Saying we are relying on Barfa too much is a little premature though CT, we are only three games into the league season, Ben Arfa has hit the ground running and has been our best player but we will see Cabaye step up, i also think Marveaux will be used quite a lot too, as will Amalfitano. Its just a case of us getting up to speed as a team and finding our stride in a system. Thats where i will agree with you again, the system, the managers ability to choose the correct one and utilise the best players in each specific role. This is where AP has to stand up and show why he deserves the accolades he picked up last year. He has been hindered by injuries though, you have to take that into the bargain. Once we have Tiote back and Cabaye into form we will se a different side, most likely a 4231 system too. Jonas and Ben Arfa on either side of them with Ba sitting behind Cisse. I fully expect Marveaux to be used on the left quite a bit too. What is your fascination with Ferguson CT? I actually think he is shite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I think this is a big season for Pardew and one where he needs to show he has the ability to be a top English manager. Part of that is making tough decisions, even taking the odd gamble. Time for Pardew to step up. Winning the Premier League and LMA manager of the year doesn't suggest he already is a top English manager? I really don't know why I bother. Edited September 16, 2012 by Monroe Transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13877 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Being a top "English" manager is hardly setting him a high target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) More reason why we should get our attack right. We are no good when we simply try and soak up and defend. There is the possibility those who come in defensive wise, will do well. There is no possibility of us creating more from the left without Pardew doing something about it. I think this is a big season for Pardew and one where he needs to show he has the ability to be a top English manager. Part of that is making tough decisions, even taking the odd gamble. His detractors could point to a wealth of talent put on a plate for him last season by others. They could point to the "in camp" that ruled the roost, moved on by others. We are shite on the left, not creating chances for Ba and Cisse, over reliant on Ben Arfa and not getting anywhere near the best out of Cabaye. Time for Pardew to step up. Youre scapegoating Jonas when the fact of the matter is we play 4-4-2 pretty shite against teams who play 3 in midfield. That all stems from the CM's as they're not getting a foothold on the game, which was shown in our last few games. It's not getting the best out of the players. The decision Pardew needs to make is to shift to 4-3-3, not dropping Jonas. Stop critisizing for the sake of it and look at the bigger picture, not just at one player. Edited September 16, 2012 by StoneColdStephenIreland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Winning the Premier League and LMA manager of the year doesn't suggest he already is a top English manager? I really don't know why I bother. At least we agree on one thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have to agree with CT like. If we are going to be weakened in defence we have to be stronger in attack, have the ball more, keep it better, use it better and lessen the threat that can be put on our distrupted defensive unit. Saying we are relying on Barfa too much is a little premature though CT, we are only three games into the league season, Ben Arfa has hit the ground running and has been our best player but we will see Cabaye step up, i also think Marveaux will be used quite a lot too, as will Amalfitano. Its just a case of us getting up to speed as a team and finding our stride in a system. Thats where i will agree with you again, the system, the managers ability to choose the correct one and utilise the best players in each specific role. This is where AP has to stand up and show why he deserves the accolades he picked up last year. He has been hindered by injuries though, you have to take that into the bargain. Once we have Tiote back and Cabaye into form we will se a different side, most likely a 4231 system too. Jonas and Ben Arfa on either side of them with Ba sitting behind Cisse. I fully expect Marveaux to be used on the left quite a bit too. What is your fascination with Ferguson CT? I actually think he is shite... I think he looks quite good. But putting individuals to one side, I'm no bothered who is out there as long as they are providing quality service for two strikers who would lap it up. My view ( and others) is that Jonas very rarely does that. Where people used to argue that he did, they now argue "but he covers left back well". So basically it boils down to whether you want a Jonas type, work hard, add some cover player or a get the ball create for the forwards type player. For me it's Marveaux or Ferguson or whoever can play that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Being a top "English" manager is hardly setting him a high target. Very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Youre scapegoating Jonas when the fact of the matter is we play 4-4-2 pretty shite against teams who play 3 in midfield. That all stems from the CM's as they're not getting a foothold on the game, which was shown in our last few games. It's not getting the best out of the players. The decision Pardew needs to make is to shift to 4-3-3, not dropping Jonas. Stop critisizing for the sake of it and look at the bigger picture, not just at one player. Or we play the 442 crap because Jonas doesn't play as a winger and doesn't attack. If you don't like reading differing opinions btw, best not visiting forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think it's a fairly accurate assessment that Jonas doesn't deliver enough quality from the left. But it also disregards the fact that we don't get enough quality from the right either in a 4-4-2. Ben Arfa (while clearly being class and our most effective attacking player so far) rarely delivers quality crosses in from the right. This is why I don't think 4-4-2 in any way suits us any more. We need to go back to playing 4-3-3 or whatever you want to call what we finished last season with. That gets round the problem of wingers who can't put in quality crosses, makes the best use of Cabaye by pushing him further forward and gives an answer to the problem of Ba and Cisse seemingly being unable to play as a front two together. Whether or not you then try playing Marveaux or Fergusson as the wide left player is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What I want to know is where is Mehdi Abeid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Interesting question although I don't think it's pertinent to a discussion about tomorrows game given that he wouldn't be playing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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