Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Thanks HF, that's complete gobbledygook to me /Translation Its very interesting as in if you had the time and patience to get into it, you could start to compare which partnerships work etc. IE Does player A set up lots of players or does he usually set up player B because they have a great understanding, like Beardsley / Lineker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9240 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 You Mong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 The real debate is whether Ben Arfa would make a good number 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9240 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The real debate is whether Ben Arfa would make a good number 10. Well he certainly has all the attributes I'd say were required for a number 10. Excellent technique, excellent first touch, good vision, assured composure on the ball and great movement. Nice turn of pace, eye for a through pass and isn't easily knocked off the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The real debate is whether Ben Arfa would make a good number 10. You have to be taking the piss surely? Just to clarify in 433 Ben Arfa is on the wing - if you're playing a number 10 it's almost certainly going to him - unless he's injured. He's played all across the front in his career & said he prefers to play behind the striker & Pardew has said this is where he prefers playing him. Essentially 4231 is a 424 anyway so you need players who are going to be back & forth...not just forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 You have to be taking the piss surely? Just to clarify in 433 Ben Arfa is on the wing - if you're playing a number 10 it's almost certainly going to him - unless he's injured. He's played all across the front in his career & said he prefers to play behind the striker & Pardew has said this is where he prefers playing him. Essentially 4231 is a 424 anyway so you need players who are going to be back & forth...not just forth. Just a question Tom? What's a classic number 10? Ronaldo / cantana ???? I thought HBA had spent most of his career on the left or right? Iirc he's had a few games here in that role but more on the right? So therefore it's not a foregone conclusion is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Just a question Tom? What's a classic number 10? Ronaldo / cantana ???? I thought HBA had spent most of his career on the left or right? Iirc he's had a few games here in that role but more on the right? So therefore it's not a foregone conclusion is it? Ronaldo a number 10? You what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 I think as with most clever players, it makes a lot of difference if they have clever players around them who have an inkling what may be coming next. That's why I think Marveaux and HBA would play well together as they did in one brief cameo last year. I understand it makes defending harder btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Ronaldo a number 10? You what? Hence the ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9240 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Ronaldo a number 10? You what? Hence the ? Hence the consensus opinion CT knows fuck all about football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14911 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 HBA and Ronaldo arent given rigid and restrcitive roles for their clubs. They can play it as they see it most of the time. HBA has more defensive responsibilties at his club though so mainly stays wide. All this talk of a "no 10" is fairly irrelevent. If a team is sent out with one central striker playing in behind the other one you'll find that a lot of the width tends to come from fullback, and we know how good ours are at that. Say what you want about Santon, he's been fuckin awful lately, defensively poor and offensively fairly ineffective. Simpson is Simpson. Shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Just a question Tom? What's a classic number 10? Ronaldo / cantana ???? I thought HBA had spent most of his career on the left or right? Iirc he's had a few games here in that role but more on the right? So therefore it's not a foregone conclusion is it? There's a million. Maradona/Platini who you will have seen, Kaka/Riquelme/Aimar who you wont. It's just a free role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 HBA and Ronaldo arent given rigid and restrcitive roles for their clubs. They can play it as they see it most of the time. HBA has more defensive responsibilties at his club though so mainly stays wide. All this talk of a "no 10" is fairly irrelevent. If a team is sent out with one central striker playing in behind the other one you'll find that a lot of the width tends to come from fullback, and we know how good ours are at that. Say what you want about Santon, he's been fuckin awful lately, defensively poor and offensively fairly ineffective. Simpson is Simpson. Shite. I obviously mistaken information that a number 10 was usually the second striker but a player that was more of a flair player that could create as well as score abundantly. Hence why I suggested Ronaldo, Cantona or going back Maradonna. Maybe someone could define the difference to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 There's a million. Maradona/Platini who you will have seen, Kaka/Riquelme/Aimar who you wont. It's just a free role. So what's the difference between them and Ronaldo / Cantona ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2527 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The only thing this thread needs is a Deano 4-4-3 formation and its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9240 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So what's the difference between them and Ronaldo / Cantona ? They're completely different types of player? Depending on which Ronaldo you're talking about they're either what I'd call an Inside Forward (like Henry) or an out and out striker. A number 10 is more about intricacy 20-35 yards out. About neat little passes, interlinking with strikers and midfielders, picking runs and delivering through balls or dribbling through a tangle of legs themselves. While Christiano Ronaldo can do those things, he's far more at home driving at goal from a wide starting position, or unleashing a thunderbolt from distance. Fat Ronaldo is often the finisher of a move, rather than it's initiator. Think Beardsley compared to Shearer, Maradona to Batistuta, Berkamp to van Nistelrooy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Cheers Fish. I was also looking at this on Google. Quite interesting given the formation we are playing 4231 is "reintroducing" the number 10 role according to this article. As such it implies that in the last two games Marveaux has played the "number 10" role. The Typical Number 10: Kaka and re-emergence of the Trequartista role in football The typical number ten (10) role has been under debate in the past decade as far as football tactics are concerned. It has faded into fashion and out of fashion. In the early 90’s and especially early 00’s, typical number 10’s were a feature of every championship winning side but what is really meant by a typical number 10? Well, Number 10 in football is associated with players who can control, shoot and especially play that killer pass that leads towards the goal. These kinds of players usually wear the 'Number 10' shirt and are linch pins of their team’s attacking moves. This trend became particularly prominent in the FIFA World Cup of 1998, where Zidane played the Trequartista role for the French, Del Piero for the Italians, Rivaldo for the Brazilians, Ariel Ortega for the Argentineans and Dennis Bergkamp for the Dutch. Previous number 10 greats include Diego Maradona who played the same role for Argentina in 1896 FIFA World Cup and then again in 1990 World Cup, Michel Platini for the French in Euro 1984 and Roberto Baggio for the Italians at the 1994 World Cup. Before the World Cup, typical number 10’s had almost gone out of fashion in modern football. Apart from Kaka and Sneijder there was no other prominent Trequartista in the world of football. A number of players in fact, failed to make superstars of themselves despite being featured in these roles quite often; players such as Juan Riquelme, Pablo Aimar, Andres D’Alessandro and Javier Saviola. These players emerged in the early 00’s and were a part of the ‘New Maradona’ production line from Argentina, where every player was trying to be the next Maradona. Also, it became harder for players to play this role due to the change in the tactical trend. Managers packed their midfield with five players more often than not, this meant that the opposing team’s creative Trequartistas had less of an influence on the team, as they were usually being marked by two or more players at a time. However a few matches in the present round of sixteen in the 2010 FIFA World Cup have given resurgence to a once dead trend. Kaka’s performance against Chile was an excellent example of what a typical number 10 brings to the team; pace, trickery, shooting ability, control of the ball and most importantly the vision to pick that final pass out which leads towards the eventual goal. Sneijder’s performance for Netherlands against Slovakia also reinforced the fact that if deployed in the right formation Trequartistas can be the most potent of weapons. The German national team deployed the Turkish born youngster Mesut Ozil in their Trequartista role behind the strikers and he has been the player of the tournament so far. Argentina have also tried to follow the trend and their coach Diego Maradona has pushed his star player Lionel Messi into a typical number 10 role behind strikers like Higuain and Tevez. French employed Johan Gourcuff as their Trequartista but he was not that successful for them due to the in-squad fighting, although he has been very impressive for his club Bordeaux in France. For the top club sides around the world, there are a number of players who are engaged in such roles. Diego for Juventus is a fine example of a modern Trequartista. Aimar has also had career resurgence at Benifica, Guti has long played in the Trequartista role for Real Madrid, Paul Scholes used to play there for Manchester United but due to his age, he has been demoted to a deep-lying play maker. Steven Gerrard has played the role for Liverpool frequently as well, when he plays behind Fernando Torres, although he is actually a box to box midfielder. Other examples include Modric for Tottenham in the English premier league. The movement towards playing a 4-2-3-1 formation has given some air to the Number 10 role, as with two defensive midfielders covering the back four, teams essentially require a creative player ahead of them to provide a steady supply towards the wings and to the striker(s) as well. Players playing in a “number 10” role are a major source of entertainment for football fans, these players influence kids to pursue a football career, players like Maradona and Zidane have developed the beautiful game into what it is today, the re-emergence of this trend is good news for any football fan who loves fast flowing attacking football where build up is focused upon. The outcome is a finished product which is a spectacle worthy of admiration. http://blogs.bettor.com/The-Typical-Number-10-Kaka-and-re-emergence-of-the-Trequartista-role-in-football-a14119 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14136 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 cantana ???? Olé! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20169 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Olé! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30798 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Always nice to see CT sharing his vast knowledge of the beautiful game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I love the smell of Snide in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35569 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Are you sure you haven't shit yourself again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Nope, just the usual snidey shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35569 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Don't cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Don't cry. I won't. I'm not quite as easy to hound as Leazes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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