Europe --- In or Out

[PaddockLad 14597]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I don't see Cameron breaking the law or avoiding doing what Parliament says. I mean Number 10 has just confirmed that if they pass this vote to have the government release Yellowhammer and private whatsapp messages to prove proroguing was in order to ensure No Deal - they will simply ignore it. Cameron was an asshat, but no way he'd be doing this. The country is actually, without exaggeration, being hijacked by a man who could best be described as an absolute clusterfuck of an individual, and someone who I can only assume is a chartered psychopath.

 

This is worse than Cameron.

 

 Cameron is as bad because he thought he could solve everything  with referendums. He had 4 . Hitler only had 6 ffs. Bercow  jacking his hand today is iironic  because if there’s one thing he ensured above all else is that Parliament is indeed sovereign in this country and neither the electorate or the government is above it. Cameron was the antithesis of that. 

[PaddockLad 14597]

4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Except, if Cameron had even a hint of a backbone, none of this would be happening. 

 

The bloke is hugely to blame, yet he’s nowhere to be seen. 

 

No balks to make a decision. This present mob may worship Thatcher & Churchill but that’s just a bad fuckin joke now. 

[Rayvin 4964]

It depends what you think is worse. I'll get on board for certain with Cameron being more damaging overall, but in terms of moral fortitude, I put him head and shoulders above Johnson and Cummings. He may have opened the door for the monsters to walk through, and as such if you were going to go back in time and assassinate anyone, it'd be him - but he isn't the monster itself.

[ewerk 26387]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

It depends what you think is worse. I'll get on board for certain with Cameron being more damaging overall, but in terms of moral fortitude, I put him head and shoulders above Johnson and Cummings. He may have opened the door for the monsters to walk through, and as such if you were going to go back in time and assassinate anyone, it'd be him - but he isn't the monster itself.

Not like Cameron introduced years of austerity that hurt the poorest the most. Fine moral fortitude.

[ewerk 26387]

30 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I’d love to know what the other EU members thoughts are on the UK, if they’d rather we just fucked off, if they’d rather we cancelled the whole thing and stayed- and if that happened, what our status in the EU would be? 

 

They’d rather we stayed and if we did then our position would be unchanged from what it was.

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, ewerk said:

Not like Cameron introduced years of austerity that hurt the poorest the most. Fine moral fortitude.

 

And Johnson didn't vote for any of that? I'm not saying Cameron was a moral paragon, far fucking from it.

 

But fucking look at what's going on man. Fucking look at it.

[PaddockLad 14597]

2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

And Johnson didn't vote for any of that? I'm not saying Cameron was a moral paragon, far fucking from it.

 

But fucking look at what's going on man. Fucking look at it.

 

Both he and Johnson thought they could by pass Parliament to get their own way

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Both he and Johnson thought they could by pass Parliament to get their own way

 

So you prefer Johnson?

[ewerk 26387]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

And Johnson didn't vote for any of that? I'm not saying Cameron was a moral paragon, far fucking from it.

 

But fucking look at what's going on man. Fucking look at it.

They’re two cunts. I’ve no confidence that Cameron wouldn’t do the same as Johnson in the same situation, I won’t have a good word said about him.

[Rayvin 4964]

Cameron backed Remain, Johnson was a remainer who backed Leave for personal political advantage.

 

Maybe Cameron, in Johnson's position, would do the same things - but we don't actually know that. All we know is that he was a total cunt who set the groundwork for all of this and gambled with the country's future, but -at least- was on the right side of the debate.

 

Frankly, I consider Farage more morally credible than Johnson because he has stuck to his plan throughout a period of some 20 years.

 

Johnson is unforgivable. Even for a politician.

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

We’re arguing which kind of shit you’d rather eat here- with or without undigested sweetcorn. 

 

You’re still eating shit. 

[Rayvin 4964]

You know those people who think we're witnessing the rise of fascism, and I regularly complain about them in the SJW thread for being ridiculous and distracting from real issues?

 

Based on the fact we have a government actively trying to subvert Parliament for its own gain by threatening to ignore laws, hiding information that might save lives/prevent serious economic harm, and shutting down parliament in a bid to avoid scrutiny during a time of national crisis, I'm starting to think maybe I was wrong.

 

That doctor who rubbed JRM up the wrong way claims they're stockpiling body bags for increased mortality post-Brexit. Maybe it's project fear, but one thing I'm fucking certain of is that I wouldn't trust Johnson and Cummings to have given it a second thought, true or not.

[NJS 3980]

Cameron and Osborne introduced cuts to disabled benefits that even Ian Duncan Smith couldn't stomach. Nowt beats that morally. 

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

18 minutes ago, ewerk said:

They’d rather we stayed and if we did then our position would be unchanged from what it was.

Is that still the case, given the outright buffoonery of the last few years? 

 

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, NJS said:

Cameron and Osborne introduced cuts to disabled benefits that even Ian Duncan Smith couldn't stomach. Nowt beats that morally. 

 

I respect where you're coming from and maybe with the realm of standard British politics you're right, but in terms of human history and destructive potential, I disagree.

[PaddockLad 14597]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

So you prefer Johnson?

 

Equally as bad. As is May. They’ve all singularly tried to put party before country by ignoring parliament 

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, PaddockLad said:

 

Equally as bad. As is May. They’ve all singularly tried to put party before country by ignoring parliament 

 

Johnson has put his own self before 60 million people (and destroyed the Tories in the process) but I'm not going to argue this any further, I respect I'm in a minority.

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

You know those people who think we're witnessing the rise of fascism, and I regularly complain about them in the SJW thread for being ridiculous and distracting from real issues?

 

Based on the fact we have a government actively trying to subvert Parliament for its own gain by threatening to ignore laws, hiding information that might save lives/prevent serious economic harm, and shutting down parliament in a bid to avoid scrutiny during a time of national crisis, I'm starting to think maybe I was wrong.

 

That doctor who rubbed JRM up the wrong way claims they're stockpiling body bags for increased mortality post-Brexit. Maybe it's project fear, but one thing I'm fucking certain of is that I wouldn't trust Johnson and Cummings to have given it a second thought, true or not.

I’ll be honest here Raymundo, if you’ve only just realised that ( the rise of Facism) now, you’ve had your head in the sand. 

Other than the fucking planet becoming a desert in the next decade or two, it’s the thing that worries me most about the immediate future. 

History tells us that in Fascist states a worryingly large portion of the population embrace it.

There’s a reckoning coming and it’ll be messy as fuck. 

[Rayvin 4964]

2 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I’ll be honest here Raymundo, if you’ve only just realised that ( the rise of Facism) now, you’ve had your head in the sand. 

Other than the fucking planet becoming a desert in the next decade or two, it’s the thing that worries me most about the immediate future. 

History tells us that in Fascist states a worryingly large portion of the population embrace it.

There’s a reckoning coming and it’ll be messy as fuck. 

 

We have been witnessing a right (and left) wing push back against globalisation that is fundamentally misunderstood as a rise of fascism, to my enduringly deep frustration. It is not. It is an issue, but it is not fascism (even if fascists hijack it periodically). A government ignoring the laws and constitution of a country actually -is- fascism. Even Trump can't get away with the kind of shit Johnson appears to be trying for.

[Rayvin 4964]

Gonna put on record that I've been drinking so if I'm more robust in my assertions than usual, then I apologise.

 

Still fucking right though

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

Aye, fair point, but what people have been “mistaking” as Facism alway, inevitably, leads to actual Facism. 

Here we are. 

It’s fucking worrying tbh, as so many people seem to be blithely unconcerned about it. 

When more people vote for X Factor than for MPs, we’re in bother. 

[Alex 30420]

I see Cameron, the pisstaking cunt, has a book out. 

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Gonna put on record that I've been drinking so if I'm more robust in my assertions than usual, then I apologise.

 

Still fucking right though

 

 

It’s a drink-off! 

[Monkeys Fist 38776]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

I see Cameron, the pisstaking cunt, has a book out. 

Chapter 1. 

Why I Fucked That Pig. 

[Rayvin 4964]

4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Aye, fair point, but what people have been “mistaking” as Facism alway, inevitably, leads to actual Facism. 

Here we are. 

It’s fucking worrying tbh, as so many people seem to be blithely unconcerned about it. 

When more people vote for X Factor than for MPs, we’re in bother. 

 

Political disengagement, I totally agree about. And you're right about it leading to fascism. Really that's all I meant with my door metaphor concerning Cameron - he opened the door and, apparently, fascism is trying to walk through it.