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Can I just point out that this has been one of the most informed, civilised and reasonable discussions I've seen on here. Which is remarkable when you consider that both toonotl and HF are involved and what their history is :D

 

 

:D

 

I'd hate to think I've ever been less than civilised or reasonable ;)

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I know mate we've been talking about it. You're like the hippo in the swamp - slow, almost invisible but with a big  bite.  ;)

 

The Iraq war and journalism became the touchstone with reg to media bias, jingoism and patriotism which has led to much analysis over the years.

 

 

Bog-hippo. Ireland's answer to the Loch Ness Monster.

 

 

#TeamNasty 

Edited by ewerk

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:D

 

I'd hate to think I've ever been less than civilised or reasonable ;)

I don't think I've ever seen you cut up rough apart from that one time I think it was Chez.

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Also interesting. So if I'm interpreting that correctly, it's setting out that we believe our media is too right wing? If so, why do we keep voting right wing... I know that should feel self explanatory, but if we're astute enough to see that it IS right wing, how come we aren't voting contrary to that? Or is the argument that we're acknowledging the right wing bias but voting with it anyway.

Edited by Rayvin

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Also interesting. So if I'm interpreting that correctly, it's setting out that we believe our media is too right wing? If so, why do we keep voting right wing... I know that should feel self explanatory, but if we're astute enough to see that it IS right wing, how come we aren't voting contrary to that? Or is the argument that we're acknowledging the right wing bias but voting with it anyway.

 

Interesting question.  Perhaps Brits have a propensity to lean towards supporting socialist values like the free NHS, free education and social safety net but vote in naked self interest when it comes to paying for it.

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Virtually meaningless as its based on perceptions and it would be impossible to control that study properly. Its at best directional. 

 

Surely it's only meaningless if you consider the 'left' and the 'right' to be static points on the political spectrum. If they move with the mood and 'perception' of the people, as I suspect they do, then this graph would appear to suggest that where 'the people' view the centreground to be is to the left of where 'the media' as a collective position themselves.

 

Why would the study be impossible to control?

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Why would the study be impossible to control?

 

Because people's cognitive processes are dominated by heuristic bias. Therefore a study which assesses bias is flawed without adequate control. 

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Because people's cognitive processes are dominated by heuristic bias. Therefore a study which assesses bias is flawed without adequate control. 

 

But surely the study isn't looking to determine any sense of objective reality, it's looking entirely at people's perceptions of something - of which their bias is fundamentally important, is it not?

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Not sure what you mean. You can't ask biased people to assess bias was my point. What's yours?

 

It was a joke about the earlier conversation that says people will be dismissive of any evidence they disagree with.

 

It's a comparison of how europeans perceive bias in their countries.  In most countries the number that perceive a left wing bias outnumber those who perceive a right wing bias.  In the UK, the number that perceive a right wing bias outnumber those that perceive a left wing bias, more than in any other country.  Why are we special in this regard?

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But surely the study isn't looking to determine any sense of objective reality, it's looking entirely at people's perceptions of something - of which their bias is fundamentally important, is it not?

 

I agree, that was the point i wanted to make. However, its so subjective its not really comparable across countries. 

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It was a joke about the earlier conversation that says people will be dismissive of any evidence they disagree with.

 

It's a comparison of how europeans perceive bias in their countries.  In most countries the number that perceive a left wing bias outnumber those who perceive a right wing bias.  In the UK, the number that perceive a right wing bias outnumber those that perceive a left wing bias, more than in any other country.  Why are we special in this regard?

 

Right :lol: Am a bit slow today. It was the comparison across countries, i do know the french press very well and i would say their nationalistic, chauvinistic instinct is as deep as our media's. 

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Right :lol: Am a bit slow today. It was the comparison across countries, i do know the french press very well and i would say their nationalistic, chauvinistic instinct is as deep as our media's. 

 

Yeah, which I think makes the results more instructive. If what you say is right it reflects poorly on the French population that they think their press is still too left wing and suggests the press only reflect left leaning issues to the extent that the right wing population will tolerate it.

 

I guess, as pioneers of national healthcare and all that, Brits probably consider social care to be an intrinsic part of our identity on the whole.  If we see the media attacking our health & education institutions or siding with state or other institutions of authority we tend to oppose it.  I think if the poll was done after Boyle's olympic ceremony we'd have been further outliers. Are we different to the French in that regard?  They're most protective of the dictionary right? :lol:

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Brits werent the pioneers of social healthcare, that was Bismark in the 1880s. A perfect example of why confirmation bias renders perceptions of media bias in the public completely unhelpful. 

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Brits werent the pioneers of social healthcare, that was Bismark in the 1880s. A perfect example of why confirmation bias renders perceptions of media bias in the public completely unhelpful. 

 

That was insurance for workers though. First in Europe to provide universal health care.

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You said social healthcare not universal and giving workers who cant afford healthcare, access to care was the first major step in Europe. The SHI v NHS systems are essentially the same apart from the extent of entitlement and importantly the German SHI mechanism was the inspiration for the leftist universal agenda. 

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