Tom 13861 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I don't even understand how theirs still an argument regarding the club being ambitious. We're rocking zero ambition. Zilch, Sweet F,A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It was included for clarity. If we're being ambitious, it behoves us to buy players for the future, rather than just short term loans. I agree, but if it's a player we've been after for a long time and see as a perfect fit, which we did, then it's more ambitious to get him here on loan with hopefully a view to permanent than to go after a lesser target. If nothing else it benefits the first team now and gives Graham Carr a bit extra time to find an alternative who he's happy with. Win / win really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I don't even understand how theirs still an argument regarding the club being ambitious. We're rocking zero ambition. Zilch, Sweet F,A. And yet here we are, a couple of wins off a CL spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8994 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 I agree, but if it's a player we've been after for a long time and see as a perfect fit, which we did, then it's more ambitious to get him here on loan with hopefully a view to permanent than to go after a lesser target. If nothing else it benefits the first team now and gives Graham Carr a bit extra time to find an alternative who he's happy with. Win / win really. That's an interesting approach on the way things are, but I don't think it stands up to scrutiny. The options aren't; Either sign Loic Remy on loan, or sign someone inferior permanently. There's a whole heap of options between those. We could have signed Gomis permanently and Remy on Loan, or Remy perm & Gomis on loan, or etc. etc. etc. CT, you have to agree that while Mike Ashley would be delighted to see Champions League football (or rather the revenue that brings), he won't genuinely pursue it. I understand how this strategy appeals to you; success with little effort/commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I understand how this strategy appeals to you; success with little effort/commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13861 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 And yet here we are, a couple of wins off a CL spot. Exactly and what are we doing about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Anyone under the misguided impression Newcastle are currently a club with ambition should look no further than Shola Ameobi's appearance record. He's made more appearances in each of the last 2 years than in any season over the previous decade. Indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 That's an interesting approach on the way things are, but I don't think it stands up to scrutiny. The options aren't; Either sign Loic Remy on loan, or sign someone inferior permanently. There's a whole heap of options between those. We could have signed Gomis permanently and Remy on Loan, or Remy perm & Gomis on loan, or etc. etc. etc. CT, you have to agree that while Mike Ashley would be delighted to see Champions League football (or rather the revenue that brings), he won't genuinely pursue it. I understand how this strategy appeals to you; success with little effort/commitment. He won't genuinely pursue it by personally bankrolling it, no. What I've said is that we probably have the next best plan to the above which is recruiting the quality of player we have over the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13861 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 There's no intention to be the best we can be - either off the pitch or on it. I'm think Pardew is doing a canny job - but is he the best manager we can reasonably attract? Perhaps so - but only because of parameters we've set out ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I'm a firm believer in steady rather than rapid growth. One of the most important elements at any football club (or business for that matter) is the culture. Wholesale, significant changes to the squad are likely to rock the boat - the best policy, IMO, is to gradually improve, year on year. Top 10 might be the target this year, followed by top 7 next year, then maybe a push for the top 4 after that. By which stage, if it's all going to plan, the squad will have grown into a team comfortable playing at that level. Taking a mid-table team and throwing in a couple of new players doesn't suddenly transform it into a top 4 contender. As much as it goes against what I'd like to see as a myopic fan, slow, steady growth is likely to see us fare better over the next 5 years than chucking a fortune at a couple of mercenaries for a risky push for the Champions League. Edited January 21, 2014 by BigWalrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Exactly and what are we doing about it? Keeping Cabaye, doing deals for Cabella and De Jong???? And whatever else they choose not to share with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Anyone under the misguided impression Newcastle are currently a club with ambition should look no further than Shola Ameobi's appearance record. He's made more appearances in each of the last 2 years than in any season over the previous decade. Indefensible. And yet here we are ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13861 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Keeping Cabaye, doing deals for Cabella and De Jong???? And whatever else they choose not to share with me. So they're getting another loan player in and making a tidy profit on Cabaye in summer? How's that ambitious? That sounds like going backwards if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 And yet here we are ....... ...1 place above Southampton who have a wage bill half the size of ours, a stadium 3/5ths the size and a history not fit to be mentioned in the same breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 There's no intention to be the best we can be - either off the pitch or on it. I'm think Pardew is doing a canny job - but is he the best manager we can reasonably attract? Perhaps so - but only because of parameters we've set out ourselves. But it's very rarely been different at Newcastle. We got very lucky at the start of the premiership with a perfect storm of Keegan, hall, fantastic sponsorship etc and then lucky with Sir Bobby's great management and Shepherds black hole. Each time there's been nothing there to sustain any progress made and it's very quickly fell away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm a firm believer in steady rather than rapid growth. One of the most important elements at any football club (or business for that matter) is the culture. Wholesale, significant changes to the squad are likely to rock the boat - the best policy, IMO, is to gradually improve, year on year. Top 10 might be the target this year, followed by top 7 next year, then maybe a push for the top 4 after that. By which stage, if it's all going to plan, the squad will have grown into a team comfortable playing at that level. Taking a mid-table team and throwing in a couple of new players doesn't suddenly transform it into a top 4 contender. As much as it goes against what I'd like to see as a myopic fan, slow, steady growth is likely to see us fare better over the next 5 years than chucking a fortune at a couple of mercenaries for a risky push for the Champions League. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ...1 place above Southampton who have a wage bill half the size of ours, a stadium 3/5ths the size and a history not fit to be mentioned in the same breath. They've spent a canny bit in the summer - I'd be surprised if their wage bill is sustainable at the current level. Their top players will either want a pay rise or a transfer in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ...1 place above Southampton who have a wage bill half the size of ours, a stadium 3/5ths the size and a history not fit to be mentioned in the same breath. There are many teams gracing the lower divisions with big stadia and rosy history's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13861 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 But it's very rarely been different at Newcastle. We got very lucky at the start of the premiership with a perfect storm of Keegan, hall, fantastic sponsorship etc and then lucky with Sir Bobby's great management and Shepherds black hole. Each time there's been nothing there to sustain any progress made and it's very quickly fell away. What difference does that make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 They've spent a canny bit in the summer - I'd be surprised if their wage bill is sustainable at the current level. Their top players will either want a pay rise or a transfer in the summer. They've spent a canny bit in the summer - I'd be surprised if their wage bill is sustainable at the current level. Their top players will either want a pay rise or a transfer in the summer. ...yet there they are. CT likes to look at the league as a snapshot in time and base his entire opinion on that. The whole direction of the club and the management of the squad is crystalised for him by the current standings on any day. That's why this time last year he wanted the manager sacked and was disgusted with goings on. But now, for him, we're back to being on the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge....of glory. All this despite there being no shift whatsoever in the financial approach of the owner and the inhibitions we all know that places on further improvements. I've no doubt Southampton have peaked, much like we have. CT thinks we haven't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 But it's very rarely been different at Newcastle. We got very lucky at the start of the premiership with a perfect storm of Keegan, hall, fantastic sponsorship etc and then lucky with Sir Bobby's great management and Shepherds black hole. Each time there's been nothing there to sustain any progress made and it's very quickly fell away. How was appointing a man of the calibre of Sir Bobby lucky? We were also on a very sound financial footing then as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8994 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm a firm believer in steady rather than rapid growth. One of the most important elements at any football club (or business for that matter) is the culture. Wholesale, significant changes to the squad are likely to rock the boat - the best policy, IMO, is to gradually improve, year on year. Top 10 might be the target this year, followed by top 7 next year, then maybe a push for the top 4 after that. By which stage, if it's all going to plan, the squad will have grown into a team comfortable playing at that level. Taking a mid-table team and throwing in a couple of new players doesn't suddenly transform it into a top 4 contender. As much as it goes against what I'd like to see as a myopic fan, slow, steady growth is likely to see us fare better over the next 5 years than chucking a fortune at a couple of mercenaries for a risky push for the Champions League. It absolutely does make sense to establish strong foundations, however when we finished 5th we were in the perfect position to accelerate the plans. When Swansea were rocketting up the leagues, they didn'tstick to their original plan, it changed when the circumstances did. With the addition of the winter purchases coming in Summer, we could have followed 5th with a similar finish, we'd certainly have had a better squad to attack the 3 Cups. I've no problem with steady ambition, I do have a problem with publicly stating that silverware isn't a priority and that European competition is an unwanted distracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8994 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 ...yet there they are. CT likes to look at the league as a snapshot in time and base his entire opinion on that. The whole direction of the club and the management of the squad is crystalised for him by the current standings on any day. That's why this time last year he wanted the manager sacked and was disgusted with goings on. But now, for him, we're back to being on the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge....of glory. All this despite there being no shift whatsoever in the financial approach of the owner and the inhibitions we all know that places on further improvements. I've no doubt Southampton have peaked, much like we have. CT thinks we haven't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think we really need a modern day equivalent of a Freddie Fletcher on the commercial front to help maximise our revenues as much as possible to help us compete. Although then again this will never be a priority for Ashley whilst he's happy gaining exposure for his Sports Direct empire at minimal if any outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ...yet there they are. CT likes to look at the league as a snapshot in time and base his entire opinion on that. The whole direction of the club and the management of the squad is crystalised for him by the current standings on any day. That's why this time last year he wanted the manager sacked and was disgusted with goings on. But now, for him, we're back to being on the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge (the edge) the edge....of glory. All this despite there being no shift whatsoever in the financial approach of the owner and the inhibitions we all know that places on further improvements. I've no doubt Southampton have peaked, much like we have. CT thinks we haven't though. Dear me Simple question. Do you think we've got a better first team squad this year than last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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