ewerk 35103 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 hours ago, RobinRobin said: From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue. What does any of that mean? Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years? I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers? Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve? It means negotiating a customs union and at the least a very close relationship to the single market. It's a sensible compromise to most reasonable people but the last three years have been polarising to the point where sensible doesn't quite cut it any more. The biggest problem is that the majority of people are sick of talking about Brexit and just want it over and done with which is what the Tories are promising. What they're failing to see is that the next few years at least are going to be spent sorting out the future relationship so leaving isn't the end of it. Just the end of the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 53986 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Renton said: James Cleverly has been eviscerated tonight. Again. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost. Another Tory ethnic minority sent out to take the flak. Where are all the whiteys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4827 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 33 minutes ago, ewerk said: Why? It's isn't really an issue to 99% of the people in this country, broadband is relatively inexpensive at the moment. Nationalisation is like cat nip to the momentum lot but most people are either indifferent or even worse the word strikes fear into their hearts. It's a net vote loser in my opinion and something they should probably be keeping quiet rather than promoting. Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6744 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 hours ago, RobinRobin said: From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue. What does any of that mean? Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years? I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers? Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve? I won't re-tread the ground of others who replied but will add that from the point of view of Labour's electoral chances in isolation, yes it's damaging. But for remain in general, with the LDs offering full remain, it maximises the voter pool available across all remain flavoured parties. I honestly think its logical and so far no one has been able to challenge this particular point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 35103 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, NJS said: Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. There are certain industries that are better off in public hands and some better off with private competition. In NI we have one water company that is government owned and we don't pay any water bills. I can't understand why something like that is privatised or what the hell the benefit of it is to the public. Trains, in my opinion, should be privatised with competition benefitting the consumer but that has been tried and failed so should go back to public ownership. But I just can't see any need or justification to nationalise broadband and provide it free of charge. It seems a step too far to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6744 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Apparently it's a hugely popular focus group policy... I mean, I can see why it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 47315 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Government sponsored porn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 35103 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: Government sponsored porn Aye but nationalisation inevitably restricts consumer choice so the only genre available will be Diane Abbott themed hentai. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4827 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, ewerk said: There are certain industries that are better off in public hands and some better off with private competition. In NI we have one water company that is government owned and we don't pay any water bills. I can't understand why something like that is privatised or what the hell the benefit of it is to the public. Trains, in my opinion, should be privatised with competition benefitting the consumer but that has been tried and failed so should go back to public ownership. But I just can't see any need or justification to nationalise broadband and provide it free of charge. It seems a step too far to me. I've read this morning that countries with state providers have coverage in the 90%s (top countries probably) while the UK is 10% - that's Thatchers legacy. Supposedly competition should have worked its magic and provided it but surprisingly it didn't. I think the benefits would be huge - more home working with saved commuting costs being a major one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 35103 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Home working only suits a small proportion of the population. And what speeds would be needed to achieve home working? I was doing it years ago on a 8mb connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 47315 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, ewerk said: Aye but nationalisation inevitably restricts consumer choice so the only genre available will be Diane Abbott themed hentai. I love it when you talk dirty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 53986 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just one super relatable dude. Or "dewwd" as he pronounces it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 47315 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 He’s not the sharpest tool in the box, is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 38598 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 That’s the best answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 53986 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Refused to engage with questions about his kids or confirm how many he has. Can you think of anyone you know who won't answer a question about how many children they have? That is so fucking bizarre as to be mind-bending. He's allowed to get away with it by getting all "please I ask you to respect that I don't answer questions about my children", but I would love to see someone not let it drop and keep hammering him on how fucking odd it is that he isn't even prepared to settle on a total. Just fucking add them up and say the number, that's all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6744 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) While I'm loathe to support him on anything, and fully appreciate this line of questioning hurts him, I don't really see what relevance this has to anything. All it's being used for is to make him look less favourable in the eyes of the the holier than thou. And yes, that's good - especially if they're prepared to ignore the plethora of other issues in which he behaves in disreputable ways. But at the same time it's a bit depressing to see that this is the line of attack, in amongst all the superior ones, that appears to be sticking. Edited November 15, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 20285 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Plainly trying to get out of paying for one or more of them. Yes, let's have someone of that character running the country. If he lived on a council estate he'd be annihilated for that if for some reason he came to the attention of the tabloid press. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 17073 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: If he lived on a council estate he'd be annihilated for that if for some reason he came to the attention of the tabloid press. Or if it was Corbyn, let's be honest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6744 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 God, imagine the fury of the press if it was Corbyn... doesn't bear thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4827 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Alternatively I'm surprised we haven seen "Corbyn shoots blanks" headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 35103 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 HOW CAN WE EXPECT CORBYN TO BLOW THE LOAD ON RUSSIA WHEN HE CAN'T EVEN DO IT IN HIS OWN WIFE?!?!!?!!!! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 47315 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 If Boris was my Dad, I wouldn’t want him telling anyone. Not defending the cunt, mind. If you can’t be honest about something as straightforward as “ how many kids have you got”, it doesn’t bode well for his integrity on other matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4827 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Well it also goes back to him being sacked by Michael Howard for blatantly lying about his affairs and children thereof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6744 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nationalise-royal-mail-energy-water-savings-bills-national-grid-a9203636.html?fbclid=IwAR01MJMc4X7GG0UIAIGA6tNoNoRlcGDKqDkR_ttyeg-IcFoguC9WoRtpvAg From the article: The nationalisation of water, energy grids and the Royal Mail would save UK households £7.8bn a year and pay for itself within seven years, according to new academic research. A report by Greenwich University’s Public Service International Research Unit put the total cost of compensation to private sector owners at just £49.7bn – around a quarter of the widely quoted £196bn price tag calculated by the CBI last month, which also covered rail. Labour’s manifesto for the 12 December general election is expected to include commitments to take the rail network, National Grid, water and mail delivery back into public hands. PSIRU director David Hall said his estimates were based on compensating shareholders for the amount they have invested in utilities being taken into public hands, rather than paying out a “market value” price as the CBI suggested. Edited November 15, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 53986 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/he-put-the-milk-in-before-taking-the-teabag-out-hes-a-proper-nutcase-whos-going-to-pay-me-for-a-four-day-week-my-election-focus-groups-in-stoke-bolton-and-west-brom-2/ Some mental chat in there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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